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A Post To Forget
By Tabrez Janjua for Stani Army in Pakistan Cricket
1,126 ViewsDr Kamran Abbasi has posted his latest article on cricinfo and it has provoked a lot of debate. The article is very critical of Mohammad Yousuf’s captaincy. His articles are usually very balanced yet this, which comes across as an emotional outburst, is a fair bit different from his usual posts. I don’t usually like posting long articles but I felt this was an important issue so do bear with me.
Result! My stock’s risen and I didn't even play!
As Pakistan supporters, we’re all frustrated and upset by the meek manner in which our team has surrendered to an Australian side that runs more on mental toughness than it does cricketing skill. Yet, to blame Mohammad Yousuf’s captaincy for the situation our team currently finds itself in is quite unfair. Dr Abbasi has been an outspoken supporter of Younis Khan as captain in the past and maybe his overly harsh criticism of Yousuf this time has something to do with this.
Yousuf has taken over at a difficult time with very little captaincy experience. We mustn’t forget that it was Younis who chickened out of the tours to New Zealand and Australia. Maybe he knew that staying in the background while Pakistan lose in Australia would make him look a better captain. Sadly, through the eyes of some it has.
It is extremely difficult to set fields or captain when your players cannot do the basics in the field or their job with the bat. A captain is only as good as his players. Until the last innings, Ponting hadn’t done much, he even made the mistake of batting first in the 2nd Test, but he’s soon going to find himself as the winning captain in a 3-0 series whitewash. Why? Because he could rely on his players. Yousuf, on the other hand, had nothing to fall back on. Nobody questioned Yousuf’s captaincy in New Zealand. Nobody questioned Yousuf’s captaincy in the 1st innings of the second Test. The difference was that the players were performing to some degree. Yet what of the roles of the coaching staff in this? Any blame Yousuf is deserving of must surely be shared by Intikhab Alam and Waqar Younis who don’t strike me as the finest examples of human intelligence.
For Dr Abbasi to say “nothing has been more dismal than the captaincy of Mohammad Yousuf” is blatantly incorrect. If any are to blame more than Yousuf, then it’s those that have dropped catches, Dr Abbasi’s namesake in particular, and those that haven’t scored well. It isn’t Yousuf’s captaincy that has played Ponting’s batsmen into “glorious form” as Dr Abbasi says, it’s those men. Had we taken just our catches, Yousuf would look a genius right now. But what does a captain do when he’s captaining a bunch of clowns?
Mohammad Yousuf: Took over in difficult circumstances & let down by team
Dr Abbasi was also critical of Yousuf for the fields our bowlers bowled to and the manner in which they bowled. Don’t our bowlers have a mind of their own? Don’t they know where to bowl? Bowlers can demand changes to fields, you see others teams bowlers doing it so why couldn’t ours? A simple question to ask is if we were to take Yousuf out of the side and put in another captain would we have been in a much better position right now? Well, the manner in which we batted and fielded, I doubt it. How can anyone attribute most blame to Yousuf’s captaincy then?
I think what fuelled Dr Abbasi’s disgust even more was listening to the Australian commentators such as Shane Warne, Richi Benaud and Mark Taylor; men that Dr Abbasi refers to as “some of the greatest Australian minds”. I did speak about the dangers of listening to these commentators on a previous post as their blatant biasness would leave many Pakistan supporters’ judgment skewed and end up filing them with rage. Mark Taylor isn’t the best friend of Pakistan as anyone who had listened to him in the wake of Bob Woolmer’s death and the Lahore attacks would know. Richie Benaud is someone who makes sly and cocky statements and really should tone down his cockiness in his old age as it is not a way to go for someone who doesn’t have long to go. As for the great Shane Warne, is it his womanising, match fixing or illegal substance taking greatness which makes his opinion so valid? Also, there were reasons why he was never made Australian captain.
Many people may still believe that Younis is a better captain than Yousuf, and in some ways, I’ll probably agree. But to criticise him this much for our current situation is very unfair. But whatever his downfalls, at least Yousuf hasn’t run off yet like a certain someone. Mohammad Yousuf may not be the greatest captain in the world, but this decent man certainly doesn’t deserve to be shamed like this.
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January 15th, 2010 at 10:57 pm
Cricket is a game where the captain takes the wrap. But MoYo can’t do anything about the lack of basic skills in the team, like how to run between wickets and how to catch.
MY was absolutely right, if he can run properly between wickets at 35, why can’t a 25 year old?
January 16th, 2010 at 12:08 am
Vim
Exactly. I think people expect Yousuf to freeze frame real life as soon as a ball goes in the air then call for the catch himself.
A lot of the criticism Yousuf received, and probably still will receive, is not rational and has ulterior motives to it.
There are two distinct weaknesses in Pakistan batting that are directly the result of playing in the nets. The first is running between the wickets and the second is finding the gaps with shots; both weaknesses of Butt’s by the way. Neither of these things are enhanced by just clobbering the ball in the nets. Training should simulate real game situations as much as possible….not Pakistani training though.
January 16th, 2010 at 2:01 am
Stani
I agree with you that a captain is as good as his team, had Kamran Akmal taken one of the four chances in the last match right now nobody would be talking about Yousuf’s captaincy, I do agree with you that he is new so if these guys can give margin for mistakes to Younis when he was captain why they can’t afford the same margin to Yousaf, but we both know the answer to that.
But having said that Yousauf did made a lot of mistakes.
1-Playing Rauf in the first test.
2-Dropping Sami in this test.
3-His field placements on the third and fourth day of sydney test were very poor. When opposition tries to dominate through a partnership all he is doing is making his bowlers bowl one line and length with the same field and hoping for the best.
4- His performance as a batsman in sydney test was a bit fishy.
5-His backing of Kamran Akmal was also not fair sending a wrong message to all players if you are in good books of the captain you can get away with murder.
6-In this match Ponting and Clarke initially were struggling but once they got settled Yousaf was clueless. Kaneria should have bowled round the wicket but all day long he kept on bowling over the wicket and finally when he bowled round the wicket he got Clarke out.
Aamer and Gul consistently bowled wide outside off stump or way short how are you supposed to get a wicket they should have attacked the pads or the wickets by taking field on the leg side. It is the job of a captain to think of these things while on the field.
I think he deserves the criticism but not this much.
2-
January 16th, 2010 at 3:23 am
Yousuf did make mistakes and he still is making them and I think he isn’t a good learner or listner as he insited against all the critisim and didn’t improved a little bit after Sydney test. After listing so much he should be little more attacking in Hobart and also more innovative with bowling changes and field placements.
Having said that You can’t blame him for all this at all bcoz:
- In every team bowlers made their moves with the help of Captain and seniors, like bowling round the wicket or over which is a bowler’s decision whatever he feels better and then ask Captain to provide proper field for that. Captain can’t spoon feed you all this. Bowler can request a fielder anywhere or even change field himself sometime but should have mind and inspiration for that.
- Dropped catches can’t be blamed on Captain, in fact he did placed the fielder at right place which make it possible to have a catching opportunity which was wasted. Specially in case of Pointing Yousuf and his bowlers got him in every inning even this one with a good plan.
- His batting wasn’t that great specially in Sydney but that doesn’t mean you collapse like that, there are 5 or 6 more guys to support batting,is he be blamed for their failure too.
- He could be blamed for not too energetic or inspirational to keep the boys on toes but aren’t boys playing international cricket not school match? don’t they have little brain specially seniors?
He made mistakes but you don’ blame someone or captain like this specially giving him blames of 80% of the team. It is too harsh. On his part he should keep learning and not be so rigid on his methods and try to take constructive criticism but not destructive like this by Kamran Abbasi.
January 16th, 2010 at 3:35 am
About Abbasi article I think he had few things going on:
- Going with the flow of the world as majority of people is are saying things like this about him.
- Listening and reading too much Aussies, specially those commentators who have been too harsh and childish on Yousuf tactics sometime.
- Being one of few representative of Pakistan on Cricinfo he might be feeling the pressure to deliver and deliver something in demand.
- Being justifying Younis captaincy and their huge support for him when he was captain.
I am wondering as world is looking like against us and have lot to laugh on us specially when we produce thing like these in this series, what point He is making and what message he is giving to the world that no body believe in their own Captain a little bit. This is what you can expect from opposite media but your own media and writer when when being criticizing used to back you.
That was a worse article by him in long time. Disappointing.
January 16th, 2010 at 4:38 am
Wasim
I agree Yousuf has made mistakes but every captain does. The fact that Yousuf has come in in difficult circumstances and only what seems to be temporarily, and with little captaincy experience, people should be more understanding. Younis Khan made many mistakes too, even with his captaincy experience. Ponting has made mistakes too, some in this very series, but they’ve been masked by his team.
1) and 2) can’t have been his decisions alone. 3) Management, other players and especially bowlers should always have a say in the field but where were they? All stupid as each other, all culpable. 5) It’s always difficult when your fellow player does bad. Public criticism should only be the route to go in rare circumstances. In-house, who knows what he felt and said. 6) These grown men, international bowlers should know where to bowl. I cannot believe that they would have not said anything had they thought these tactics were wrong. I have never even got close to playing professionally but even I know how to work a batsmen.
No one is exempt from criticism but it should always be fair and balanced, not influenced by other motives and favouritism.
Reverse
Right, a bowler should know what his strengths are and what he is trying to do. I very much doubt Yousuf would not have listened to his bowlers as if he was some kind of totalitarian dictator. And his field placements for Ponting were excellent traps but catches were dropped.
As for vocal encouragement and inspiring the team; in other teams its the wicket keeper that is the one who is most vocal when it comes to this. Unfortunately, our keeper had so much on his own plate he could only worry about himself.
The Pakistani writers on cricinfo could definitely be more supportive of Pakistan cricket generally (not just Younis Khan) and if they are critical, follow their criticism with suggestions. These are to things they don’t do. I agree, they supported Younis early and still feel they have to justify it because of his antics.
Your last point is most important Reverse. Pakistanis love to embarrass and bring down their own, it’s a favourite past time. As if our team is not making a laughing stock of us and themselves enough, our writers have to add to it too as if it is somehow positive and productive. I have nothing against Kamran Abbasi but this article was very much unlike him.
January 16th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Stani/ Reverse
True a bowler should know where to bowl but a captain should also know what he expects of a bowler. I listened to Aamer Sohail the other day he was saying they way these guys were bowling it seemed as if they were asked to stick to a plan because nobody saw the captain going to the bowlers and asking the bowler to change his line or length.
Like I said a win will hide the weaknesses and a defeat will highlight them.
January 16th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Wasim
I would love to know Intikhab’s role in all the game plan side of things but I guess we never will.
That’s exactly what’s happening with Ponting now. His players and our incompetence are hiding his mistakes. We should have taken this series 0-2 at least.
January 16th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Stani
Normally I disregard the criticism made by Pakistan’s Ex cricketers as they are a bunch of vultures, but the other day during the lunch or tea break I heard Aamer Sohail on Geo Super, he pointed out some glaring mistakes in Yousaf’s tactics and also pin pointed the flaws in Mohammad Aamer’s and Danish Kaneria’s bowling.
Aamer was of the opinion that the bowlers are not guided properly especially Aamer and the senior one’s are not given the field properly even if they ask he pointed out a few instances he also said the coach can easily snub the bowlers you know more than me just bowl according to the plan.
These Ex players have no credibility but what ever he said had a lot of sense in it, as I was also thinking why all day long Kaneria is bowling the same length and same line.
Why the pacers are not attacking the pads or the stumps?
Intikhab Alam needs to go after this series and Waqar has some serious explaining to do as to why the bowlers didn’t had any plan in SYdney.
January 16th, 2010 at 10:26 pm
One thing which has been bothering me a lot is the timing of the mistakes we make and the timing of our collapse.
I don’t know if anybody else had the feeling that Butt will get out quickly after completing his century and Malik will soon follow, but I did I was almost certain of it, and it exactly happened the same way as if these morons were following a script.
What is the probability that the well set players will continue and those who follow them will not throw away the initiative, if a bowler gets their wickets and triggers a collapse that is understandable but throwing wickets away on ordinary balls is beyond my comprehension.Especially when the tail enders most of the times out score or out bat our middle order.
This is the main problem I am concerned about under Yousaf.
I have no doubt about his ability as a captain and as a batsman.
January 16th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
I have read almost all the 300 comments on Abassi’s new blog not even a single comment about Khurram Manzoor’s batting or Sarfraz Ahmaed’s batting.
Khurram as I predicted fell again attempting a cut shot.
Sarfraz batted like another Fawad Alam, looked scratchy trying to play every ball whether it was outside off or too short and middling nothing like a school boy.
His keeping was way better than Kamran Akmal, that puts us in another dilema if we play Sarfraz the tail will become long and if we play Kamran Akmal he will continue to drop sitters.
My solution is to play Sarfraz in test matches and Play Kamran Akmal in Odi’s and T20.
January 17th, 2010 at 1:11 am
Wasim
Sohail would be good in-house as he’d kick a few behinds, but whilst he’s commentating and doing media work, we should take what he says with a pinch of salt. Thing with him is he gets angry very quick and stops thinking even though he does make some good points.
As for Kaneria, we all know he has a habit of just bowling overs and overs of boring rubbish. I have a post coming about him soon but when Yousuf said he was underrated I had to disagree.
Waqar definitely has explaining to do or may be as we suggested before the tour, he is going to take over from Intikhab so couldn’t really care if Intikhab doesn’t do well right now.
I felt the exact same thing about Butt. Yet this has been a habit of our batsmen. When they reach a milestone, instead of hardening their resolve they think they done it all and let down their guard. We generally do give our wickets away far too easily.
I did read many of the comments on Dr Abbasi’s blog too and was quite surprised at the number of people that supported Yousuf, mostly non-Pakistani supporters. That was nice. I’m not sure why they brought Khurram in but Sarfraz we have to work with in terms of his batting – give him time.
Yes I would play Sarfraz in Tests and Akmal in the shorter form but I would make adjustments in the Test team in this case. We will badly need to bring in a proper all-rounder.
January 17th, 2010 at 1:21 am
why you guys are promoting regionalism on ur blog. why do you think regionalism is in selection, WASIM i think u need a reality check dude. u got a problem with karachi players i think. leave sarfraz ahmed alone he has debut in this test and is doing better job than kamran akmal, the khatmal. khurram is bad but malik, misbah these guys are no better.
moulvi yousaf is a terrible captain mate this guy is not clever, i cant believe he has been playing cricket for decade but its not reflect in his captaincy, we dont want inzamam reborn in the pakistan team. anyhow these are my views u may disagee with them but u have to stop promoting regional bias because it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. peace.
January 17th, 2010 at 2:20 am
Arshad
No, we are completely against regionalism. Please read my other posts/comments and you will see that nothing riles me more than this. I absolutely do NOT think regionalism is in our selection. I believe favouritism is in our selection but there can be different reasons for favouritism and not just where people come from.
We were talking in the past about regionalism that exists amongst Pakistani writers so maybe it was that which confused you Arshad but really, we’re not for regionalism. Hand on heart, I haven’t a clue where in Pakistan our players are from so it goes without saying I cannot favour one over the other on the basis of the region they are from. Neither do I know what ‘khatmal’ means, which I assume is a regionalistic term because of the way you have used it.
I agree, as I stated above, we need to stick and work with Sarfraz in terms of his batting as he is a better keeper than Akmal. As for Yousuf, he had to step in as he was the only realistic option after Younis decided to take a break. We cannot criticise him too much.
Of course, you’re entitled to your views on here even if you disagree.
January 17th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Stani
No need to give this guy any explanation.
Arshad Khan
On another blog this is what you wrote, “As long as we have a Punjabi Captain these Punjabis will behave and play and we will never achieve ANYTHING.”
And you have the nerve to tell us that we are promoting regionalism on our blog.
Regionalism is a problem and we have no problem in discussing it.
It must be your inability to comprehend simple English which has led you to believe that we have some hidden agenda against players from Karachi Or may be because of your own regional bias you think that the players from Karachi should not be criticized.
January 17th, 2010 at 11:38 am
Staniarmy- you have openly attacked pathans on this blog and then you have also supported wasims regional views so how can u say you are not for regionalism?
khatmal means caterpillar it has nothing to do with regionalism.
wasim, who r u to tell staniarmy whether he needs to give me an explaination? and i dont know u r confusing me with some other arshad khan on some blog because i dont write on many blogs, in fact other than cricinfo’ pakspin i have not written on any blog recently. as far as i can tell you are needlessly criticizing osman samiuddin, i mean this guy is employed by cricinfo and how mistaken u r by saying he is biased? and you are saying abbasi is from karachi and he is biased excuse me, abbasi is known to friends of mine and he is from lahore. abbasi is one of the most fair writers i know.wasim i have lived in lahore, karachi, peshawar and met people from all walks of life- i think you need perspective because you seem a very biased person. and i dont see the point of being so rude and complaining about my english its not my first language and ur english is not brilliant my friend, sorry to say.
anyways i dont think wasim wants me to write here, so i am done with this regional blog. ciao
January 17th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Arshad Khan
Can you enlighten us which regional views you are talking about? And when did Stani attacked Pathans on this blog?
If you think that a guy who is employed by Cricinfo can’t be biased or have favoritism for a particular player then seriously you need to grow up.
You should again read my discussion with Stani regarding Osman Sami and Kamran Abbasi and this time don’t forget to use a dictionery so that you can actually understand what we discussed.
We are entitled to our opinion just like you are to yours. Don’t you think it is hypocritical of you to assume that we are promoting regionalism by discussing the poor batting
performance of Sarfraz and Khurram Manzoor when you have resorted to derogatory remarks and name calling in your criticism of Yousaf and Akmal.
And yes my English is really not brilliant because all these years I believed that a “Khatmal” in English is called a “Bed Bug”.
January 17th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
wasim what kind of petty and pathetic person u are by making fun of my english when your english is not good either? how old are you? if you are a kid then i hope u grow up and if u are older than i hope u get Hidayat because you need it.your hatred for pathans can be seen by the crude and insulting tone of ur comments. shame on you wasim because of people like you pakistan is suffering.
January 17th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
Come on guys, our team’s already embarrassing us on the world stage, let’s not add to it hey? Let’s debate on cricketing matters and respect that everyone is entitled to differing views.
Arshad
You are being very unfair by accusing me of attacking Pathans. When a player of ours plays badly I say it, Pathan or not. And I do not call him a Pathan or a Karachite, I call him by his name. In fact, I have supported Pathans in requesting Younis Khan to behave like one and stop running away. Pakistan as a nation could do with more Pathans if you ask me.
Arfridi is Pathan right? So what is the title of my post just three posts back? Is this attacking Pathans? I think you’ve made your mind up about me and are totally wrong. This is unfair of you.
This is definitely not a ‘regional blog’ as you put it. Point me to where and I will delete it just for the very reason that this kind of thing disgusts me. I will reiterate, other than Younis Khan and Shahid Afridi, I do not know which region in Pakistan our other players come from. You do not have to believe me but all I can do is tell you. You can come and disagree or agree here on cricketing issues any time you want.
January 17th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Caterpillar Khan
I already admitted my English is not good as yours:)
Tell me the truth are you a real pathan or Banaspati? Because real Pathan’s are not cowards they don’t shy away to own what they have already said. And they don’t hide their face when they pick a fight with someone.
You are lying that you didn’t made those comments on that other blog. Your views and writing style are identical.
Instead of using false accusations and abusive language to prove your point, you should point me and Stani where we used offensive language against Pathans or promoted regionalism. That’s how people debate or argue in civilized world may be you are not aware of that.
January 17th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
Wasim the english professor, i am chucking a little thinking how smart u think you are but the reality is very different. i am not picking a fight, i just made a complaint about you guys promoting regionalism on your blog. i dont know who this other person is who writes like me, or has identical style plz tell me what “other blog” this is. maybe he is my bichra hua judwaa bhai or something.
stani army i think you should make a blog of your own because this wasim will upset many people because of his insulting style and immaturity. you are saying your urdu is not good, maybe you have not been brought up in Pakistan. so you dont know much about the regional insults and regional thinking people like wasim have.
wasim i dont think u should doubt my pathanhood because when i show you what i mean by that you will cry
January 17th, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Caterpillar Khan
You still didn’t highlighted mine or Stani’s comments where you think we displayed regionalism or insulted Pathan’s.
You very well know which blog I’m talking about.
Pakistan mein regionalism meri waja sey hai, Stani kay blog per loog meri waja say offended hain, aur tumhari paidaish ki waja bhi shaid main hi hoon.
This is the first time you have commented on this blog and out of nowhere and without giving any evidence all of your emphasis is on proving Stani that because of me people will get offended on his blog.
That tells me who you really are, peechay say pathan aur agay say machar:)
January 17th, 2010 at 10:31 pm
Arshad Khan
Let me take your blinders off and show you some light.
Stani always supported Younis Khan as a captain he was always his first choice, but like many others in Pakistan he also became disappointed when he again resigned and didn’t stood up against the corrupt board officials.
But still both of us wanted him to be included in the team in place of Faisal Iqbal and criticised the administration for not sending him before the second test.
Both of us have advocated on numerous occasions that Afridi should have been in the team especially when he is in Australia. Go and read Stani’s post “Pakistan needs the Afridi effect”.
After the Sydney debacle nobody has been more harsher than me on Kamran Akmal and I was the first one to make the call for him to be dropped from the team. Read my post http://cricketfiles.com/2010/01/12/kamran-akmals-shameless-act-of-defiance/ and also read http://cricketfiles.com/2010/01/06/drop-kamran-akmal-for-good/
Just scroll above and read my comment regarding Yousaf’s captaincy in the series.
Just because we criticised Khurram Manzoor and Sarfraz Ahmad’s batting you jumped on the conclusion that we are promoting regionalism and don’t want Sarfraz in the team we both wrote that regardless of Sarfraz Ahmad’s batting he should be in the test team as he is a much better keeper than Akmal.
Go and check the previous post where I posted a link in support of Kamran Abbasi’s call to save Pakistan cricket.
I was the first one to sign his petition. There are times when we agree to what he writes and times when we disagree, in his latest post he is holding Yousaf solely responsible for the Sydney debacle both me and Stani do not agree with him on this. He has been criticising Yousaf through out this year even when he scored the most runs, we think that is his personal bias and we are entitled to our opinion.
As regards Osman Sami the post you read was written more than a year ago when Osman Sami launched an aggressive campaign for an out of form Younis Khan to be made the captain of Pakistan team.
At that time I had my reasons to believe that he was biased in his support for Younis Khan as YK’s performance was the worst out of all Pakistani batsmen back then and he was using double standards to judge different players.
But after the Sydney test I admitted to Stani that may be he was right. Go back and read my discussion with Stani on the subject again.
Nowhere in my comments or Stani’s comments you will see any racial slurs for Pathan or Karachite players like you have used.
We haven’t discussed politics on this blog and have repeated on numerous occassions that it doesn’t matter if all the players are from Balochistan or NWFP as long as they are selected on merit.
Younis Khan’s personal performance during the last year was extremely poor and deserved criticism. As a disappointed fan it was my right to criticise him, the same way as you have a right to criticise Yousaf and Akmal.
You need to grow up and realize that criticising a player just for his performance without using racial slurs is not regarded as regionalism. Anybody can disagree with any journalist you are always entitled to your opinion nobody can take that right away from you.
The minorities in Pakistan have been using reverse racism since independent they think they have the right to insult or criticise the majority but if anybody from the majority points any finger toward them they by default become the Victims.
January 17th, 2010 at 10:47 pm
Arshad
Kitni khushi ki baat hai kyon kay agar nikaltey tu apnay baap kay hotay:))
January 18th, 2010 at 2:15 am
Guys, can we respect the Policy and Usage statement of this blog and stick to English only so that other people can read, understand and respond to the comments.
Arshad
This is my own blog. All posts on here are currently authored by myself. Wasim is one of my most regular commenters on here and I enjoy reading his views because they create debate if you take them at face value for what they are, even if he disagrees with me. I am more than happy for both of you to comment even if you disagree with me and each other as long as it is on cricketing matters and does not involve personal insults. We all have differing opinions, that is what creates debate.
If you have a look at some of the points Wasim has gone through above, you will see that we couldn’t care less about where in Pakistan the players are from. We just want them to give 100% all the time. If a particular player does so, we congratulate him. If the next day he doesn’t, we pull him up – that’s it.
You are correct. I am English, born and bred Londoner and haven’t the slightest clue of these regional insults and I am better for it. I support Pakistan because they are the most skilful nation in cricket and my parents are from Kashmir. I do have a soft spot for the English team too and if I was to play for anyone, it would be them.
I hope you can accept Arshad, that we really are judging our players as cricketers and nothing else. I hope to see you back.
January 18th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
A couple of points to highlight about Younis’s captaincy:
1) A willingness to change and learn:
Made the changes in the 20/20 world cup of promoting aggresive players up the order, brought in abdul Razzaq, and Pakistan didn’t look back after te first few matches. Introduced Fawad Alam who made a big century on debut, a willingness to play Pakistan’s finds, such as, Aamer and Umar Akmal. This is in stark contrast to Yousof, adaptability and innovation are not Yousof’s forte.
2) Any day more attacking than Mohd Yousof. And, it counts. When the pitches are flat, almost every wicket is taken thru field placement and planning/bowling to a plan. There will not be any magic balls in such situations. Yousof is not just defensive, but ultra-defensive, almost immobile, gets a current when the talk of any change or innovation comes about.
Mr. emotional khan has had his fits, but practically speaking, he was doing a good job.
If anything Afridi should be made the captain. The ODIs in Australia was a very good opportunity to make such transition. Field placements, tactics, team selection– these things do count, unfortunately, and most often, decide the result.
Kamran Akmal, Shoaib Malik, Misbah, Faisal– these guys are good for domestic cricket, are not international level players and they have consistently shown that.
January 18th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
Whitewashed
What a grand humiliation. Revenge should come in the forthcoming ODI series. Pakistan team lack the application, temperament and mindset to succeed in test cricket.
January 18th, 2010 at 7:35 pm
Omer
1) I think Yousuf deserves a bit longer in the hot seat before we can judge him on the adaptability and innovation aspects. In his short rein, he has taken two good decisions of playing Sami and calling for Younis to strengthen the batting; a call that wasn’t met by the PCB.
2) This is something that is not beyond learning. It does tie in with my point above that given time, Yuosuf can learn to become a more attacking and better captain. But, to do this, he has to be given the chance to be captain which he probably will not get now.
Younis’ constant quitting was what upset me most about him. Even through the Dasti saga, Younis had the stronger hand but he chose to walk away. There’s no honour in that. We had just become Twenty20 World Champion so why walk away from the chance to take your country to Australia?
Of course, field placements, tactics, team selection do count but they cannot be soley a captain’s decision. I think Intikhab and Waqar Younis have a lot of explaining to do.
In regards to Misbah and Malik, the question is do we have better replacements? Misbah’s fortunes could have been much different. He is an intelligent player and had he not been dropped just recently, could have been a good choice for interim captain whilst Younis discovered himself again. Let’s not forget he was vice-captain not so long ago. Faisal should definitely not be near the squad. I would retain Shoaib Malik because I definitely don’t think there are players better than him in our leagues to replace him in the squad. He definitely needs to improve his scoring output as he is a better batsmen than he is showing. His two partnerships with Afridi, semis and final I think it was, were crucial in us winning the Twenty20 World Cup.
January 18th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
oye bas kero yar bas kero mairay dimagh ka dhaee ho gia hai … lolz
cant _______ take Pakistan team anymore I am looking for a good decent team to support, what about Afghanistan?
Damn this discussion sticks when you had a very bad flu hahahah
sorry
January 18th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
Ovais
Just cricket please.
Maz
Winning the ODI series 0-5 will be bring me no joy what so ever I’m afraid. We lost the real cricket matches; Test cricket, where you’re really tested.
January 18th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Reverse
I always have the English team to fall back on but they just get me more depressed. I’m glad Ajmal Shahzad from Yorkshire has been called up for the Bamgladesh tour. Let’s hope he’s not used, discarded and wasted like Asian talent in the past like Saj Mahmood and Kabir Ali.
January 18th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
oh English, Poms are ____, they right now only have a history of being home of cricket and they are good at winning Ashes, drawing matches, they always play with ordinary players from their ordinary first class cricket but waste their impressive talents.
I am talking about some exciting team, we really need more good quality teams, this is getting boring playing with each other over and over again.
January 18th, 2010 at 8:02 pm
Reverse
What has that flu done to your language!
And they also get preferential treatment on cricinfo if you noticed? The whole way through the Ashes, the three main cricinfo headline box was always made up of English or Australian headlines. More recently, we were playing Tests too but the main photo on the site was always from the SA v England series. I hope Bangladesh beat them.
I thin the top teams need to do more to help the minnows. Look at Strauss, he’s not even going to Bangladesh. The top teams just want to keep this cosy club amongst themselves. Pakistan has done more than most in helping nations like Netherlands, Afghanistan and China.
January 18th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
Omer
But didn’t we lost in Srilanka under Younis in similar fashion.Some would say that certain players conspired against him but are they conspiring against themselves now.
No doubt Younis is a better leader than Yousaf but I think you have given him too much credit and have ignored the main point that he resigned himself and that to for the third time.
Pakistan would not have won the T20 WC if Afridi and Akmal had not performed the way they did.
If Malik and Yousaf had not scored those centuries against India Pakistan would not even had made to the Semi final.
These guys unfortunately are not consistent but they are not domestic level cricketers as you suggested.
There replacements are not ready yet, if they were ready they would have certainly made the difference for Pakistan like Aamer and Umar Akmal.
January 18th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Stani Army,
Malik averages 36 in test cricket. In one days he averages 3 in NZ, 8 in England, 20-odd in Australia. He can play against India only..there are good players such as Fawad Alam– Khurram Manzoor showed grit which could replace some of the deadwood immediately. Afridi should certainly be in the team. Unfortunately, these players aren’t given a consistent run.
As for Yousof’s captaincy, at his age he can’t afford a two-year learning curve. He is the best batsman in the team but not captaincy material.
January 18th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
Wasim,
There was nothing special about Akmal’s performance in the T20 world cup. It was Razzaq and Afridi who did it.
Malik has two centuries in his whole test career. The kid came and is almost getting bald now. What convincing evidence do you need, except the fact that his long-term average wouldn’t qualify him for Western Australia 3rd eleven?
It is not about Younis versus Yousof, it is about getting the best captain out there. If Younis resigned so many times, and I have my own frustration with him, then they should make Afridi the captain.
If you notice you and I agree on many points, but what I’d rather see is that, instead of proven mediocre players such as Faisal, Malik, Kamran Akmal, Rana Naved (a genuine matchloser), youngsters who show promise be given chance. At worse they will be as bad as them, at best Pakistan might find a few players. There is nothing to lose in this..
January 18th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
And, as for losing in Sri Lanka, there was no doubt in my mind that Pakistan would collapse chasing 173 (precisely because of the deadwood in the team– if you have 6 good batsmen rather than two, in likelihoods you will chase such scores, relying on two players only is different). But it was crucial how we ended up chasing 173.
January 18th, 2010 at 8:54 pm
Who the hell is this retard guy Arshad Khan, somebody please throw him away.
Sorry Stani I didn’t noticed you have comment policy on here
well this Idiot Arshad is violating lot of things I guess , get rid of him. He doesn’t even have single point to discuss his point of view loser.
January 18th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
Omer
I’m not saying he should be given the captaincy so he could learn, and I’m not certain learning the captaincy requires as much as two years. What I am saying is that people shouldn’t be too critical of him as he had to step in after Younis went. What could he do? I mean, he is what he is. If people want to criticise his captaincy then they should do it after a fair period of time and certainly not after a three match Test series against Australia (he wasn’t criticised so much in NZ).
You mentioned players like Fawad not being given a consistent run and maybe that is true but consistency must also be given in terms of position in team. They’ve never really said to Malik you bat at this number and make that your own. Malik is an international class player and should be in and around the team. His average is low but not being able to bat in one position has surely had an affect on that.
Also, I did a post previously in regards to our youngsters taking their chances. I’m certain if Fawad had made the impact Umar and Aamer have, then he would be in the team right now. Umar and Aamer have grabbed their chances much better than Fawad, who still has question marks around him. In all honesty, I think he can make it but if I was him, I’d give up on the bowling and become a specialist lower order batsmen (already is a good fielder) because that’s where the spot is. He will never get in the team for his bowling, either as an all-rounder or just a spinner and he doesn’t have the technique for opening batting.
Sarfraz needs to play Tests. We cannot have the four-catch-drop scenario happening again. As for the shorter form, we may have to persist with Akmal for now whilst Sarfraz improves his batting. And by that, I don’t mean he has to turn into a bludgeoning batsmen, merely someone whose wicket has a value. He can easily do this by tightening up his defence and becoming a player that picks up the singles and holds down one end.
Can I ask why it is you prefer not to keep Rana and whether that is in all forms?
Wasim
Yes, the Sri Lankan series was another one in which we held many strong positions and ended up losing. It has many similarities to this Australian one.
January 18th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
Reverse
No worries, that’s cool
Yes, I did give him a chance but his last comment was well out of order. We Pakistanis love embarrassing ourselves in front of the world. I pray for the day that civility is more common amongst our people but I’m not certain I will see it in my lifetime.
Such a blessed nation in so many ways, and so cursed in others.
January 18th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3713921718473352259&postID=3238272288722639242
Reverse and Stani, Arshad Khan is this bloke called “Khansahab” of whom behaved like a true idiot and got into a bit of a heated argument with Q, Stani, Wasim and many more on the link above.
January 19th, 2010 at 1:28 am
Omer
Akmal scored the most runs for Pakistan in T20 WC.
I agree with you Malik, Akmal and Misbah have been inconsistent but so are Younis, Khurram and Fawad.
Misbah and Younis are facing the same situation they are both old and have lost their form completely. The best chance for Younis to regain form was in test matches but due to his rift with the cricket board and his decision to opt out of the New Zealand series and the first test in Australia he lost that chance.
Even if he will make a return chances are that he will struggle in the Odi’s. But given the fragility of our batting and having no other substitute for the #3 position he should be given a chance to regain his form.
The problem with the Akmal and Malik is that they have the range of strokes and technique but they do not have the workmen like attitude.
Khurram and Fawad they have the temprament and workmen like attitude but they do not have the range of strokes and proper technique. If you take out that one innings of 168 Fawad’s average in the remaining 5 innings is 16.5. In Dunedin Pakistan lost by just 35 runs Khurram scored 5 and Fawad scored 4 they also failed in the first innings.
An average of 36 is not bad for a Pakistani batsman if you consider the current group of players.
We lost by 36 runs at Sydney and lost by 35 runs in Dunedin.
In both matches one less dropped catch would have made the difference or one batsmen showing some grit could have made the difference. Captaincy was not a major issue.
But at Sydney Yousaf lost it on the fourth day but then again a win hides the errors made by a captain and a loss highlights them.
Younis as a captain made quite a few errors in CT, T20 WC and against Australia in Dubai he lost track of the overs in a few matches. He rested Umar Akmal against Australia which was a crucial mistake.
And the most important thing is that a captain has to lead from the front you cannot blame other players on one bad performance for being selfish especially when you as a captain are not even scoring in double figures.Lack of diplomacy was a key problem in Younis Khan’s captaincy when he took over captaincy he was all for seniority based selection, but within six months he changed his stance and almost everybody became insecure of their place in the team.
I think if his personal form had not betrayed him he would have been successful in reforming the team. His intentions were not bad at all but may be his aggressive attitude with the selectors ,board and the players resulted in his down fall.You cannot expect to survive like a dictator for long like Imran and Inzamam did unless you have the ability to perform like them.
Now as regards Yousaf the dropped catches made the difference, in that respect he was unlucky.
Younis is not going to take over captaincy and even if Afridi takes over Yousaf things will not change until we make sure of the exact cause of our inconsistency if it is corruption then no matter who the player is he will have to go.
The critics have completely ignored some below par bowling from Pakistan bowlers. Aamer and Gul will have to learn a lot if they want to retain their place in the test line up.
Feilding needs to be improved. And I think unless the youngsters show an improved technique they should not replace any senior.
But that is just my opinion neither of us have any influence over the selection no matter what we say PCB will conduct the business in their own style.
January 19th, 2010 at 3:42 am
Maz
Yes, let’s move on and talk about what we all love, cricket
Wasim
Interesting points. Younis definitely needs to come back in as batsman. Depending on what the PCB do in regards to Yousuf and what Afridi wants to do with the captaincy issue, we’ll have to wait and see if Younis gets that job too. I would rather he concentrated on his batting and made it clear to the captain, whoever that may be, that they are free to consult him and work together at any time.
You make a good point about Fawad’s inconsistency. I think he would have been much better off if he had a dozen 30s under his belt instead of that one century plus those low scores.
I suppose any player’s bargaining tool are the stats and figures at the end of the day. As a captain, you can perform bad personally as long as your team wins. You can also, to some degree, perform well and be in a losing side, but you cannot perform bad yourself and be in a losing team because then you have nothing to back your argument as captain.
January 19th, 2010 at 8:14 am
Wasim,
If you are seeing test matches through the lens of 20/20, then you are perhaps right. But you can find a multitude of batsmen in Pakistan who might be able to throw their bats around like Kamran Akmal and a 20, 30-odd here or there is all it takes. The crucial thing in that worldcup was that te attacking players were moved up the order, which was able to happen because a hitter like Razzaq could come down the order.
Akmal is not a keeper, so there is no point playing him as a keeper in 20/20. It sends a wrong message to all the aspiring keepers, that if any player can throw his bat around, he can just put on the gloves.
The difference between Fawad Alam and Malik is that, Malik has played for 8-9 years, so it is his long-term average. Maybe mathematical logic might not appeal to you, and for some reason, you are able to see a range of shots in case of Malik (when I see an absolute lack of talent), however, we have only one quantifable way to measure performance, and I’ll put that below:
Player Test Average First-class average
Mohd Yousof 53.63 50.11
Younis Khan 50.09 50.55
Kamran Akmal 33.55 32.43
Shoaib Malik 36 29.87
Fawad Alam 41.66 56.29
Sarfaraz Ahmed 44.78 -
Umar Gul 8.96 11.66
Mohammad Amir 13.9 13.45
Asif 4.68 7.94
Inzamam’s test average: 49.6 first-class average: 50.10
Javed Miandad’s test av: 52.57 first-class: 53.37
Zaheer Abbas’s test average: 44.79 first-class: 51.54
Moin Khan test: 28.55 first-class: 30.67
Rashid Latif test: 28.77 first-class: 28.30
In Fawad Alam’s case, he has only played 3-4 matches, so the discrepancy doesn’t account for much. Apart from these, there is a remarkable correlation between first-class averages and test match averages.
Now, unfortunately, if you are going to judge players on 3-4 matches only, and not their long-term averages, you are bound to miss even a Brian Lara in the process– who had his low periods and igh periods, but was probably the best batsmen in the last 2,3 decades (perhaps Tendulkar and Ponting run close or are equal).
If you look at when Mohd Yousof came to the international scene, the first year he played, he averaged a meagre 35-40, but in the long-term, or in the limit, his averages converged to his first-class average.
And, yes, a player averaging 35 in test matchh cricket wouldn’t make it to Western Australia 3rd eleven, even if he is perfectly consistent, in that, in every match he plays, he makes 35.
I have to ask you, though, which range of shots did you see in Malik because it seems to me that you and I are watching very different cricket matches. The first time I saw Malik, I was struck by his utter lack of talent.
January 19th, 2010 at 8:21 am
Stani Army,
Yaar you don’t win matches because of 30s, don’t set up matches because of 30s, unless you, too, are seeing it thru a lens of 20/20 cricket. That way Australians would have dropped Ponting now, Brian Lara wouldn’t be, and on and on.
January 19th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Omer
No of course not, but I think you misunderstood my point. I was merely saying that coming into international cricket, Fawad would have been better served being consistent (a dozen 30s) than a century and other low scores. It would have given him a stronger case for selection. The fact that he hasn’t broken in to the side adds some strength to this point. Obviously this doesn’t mean he carries on making 30s all his career but in his first few games that would have been an excellent foundation to build on.
I think players like Lara and Ponting are different from the rest and do show this early in their careers too, even if they don’t score as high. On that point, I don’t think we can bracket Fawad in with a young Lara or a young Ponting. Even at this early stage, it is not unreasonable to suggest that Fawad will be good, but will not reach the heights of Lara/Ponting etc. They’re once a decade batsmen.
And believe me, I have different lenses for each form of the game and it’s the Twenty20 ones I dislike wearing the most
January 19th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
hmm This post has converted into a hell of a discussion :p
Hey Stani , why don’t you submit your blog here
http://blogawards.pk/category/topical/best-sports-blog/
It will give more exposure and more people for these discussions
January 19th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
Reverse
…or a heaven of a discussion
Thanks for the link. I will take a look at it later today.
January 19th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Stani Army,
I am not saying Fawad Alam is Ponting. All I am saying is he is certainly better than Malik, Faisal, and Misbah. He is potentially a very good player, but at worst better than these. Hence, I said, what is there to lose in playing him?
Besides that, you should realize that Lara took a long, long while to become a permanent fixture in the team. Part of the reason is that, every player has his nature– think about it as a stock, some can be very consistent, and pay about the same amount each time, and others can be extraordinary for 6 months and average for 6 months, but eventually pay out the same or better. Every player has his utility and it depends how he is used. For instance, in my view, a player like Umar Akmal has a natural style of play and is best utilized as an opener since 3-down he has to play under pressure, play against his instinct, and defend.
But no-one should doubt the fact that an average of 36 is something unacceptable at international level (in test cricket). It is not as though it has been a few games, this is his long-term 8,9 year average.
January 19th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Omer
I think you missed the point, I was not suggesting that since Akmal is a good 20/20 batsman so he should play in test matches.Obviously there are power plays and different field settings and bowling restrictions in the three formats.
I only suggested that all the matches we won recently almost in every format Akmal played a pivotal role.
If you can’t see what’s wrong with Fawad’s batting then this discussion is futile, he has no footwork he has copied Chanderpaul’s stance but he can’t survive with this stance unless he improves his footwork and improves his timing and becomes a better on side player.
There are guys who have scored @ 78 in this domestic season that doesn’t mean that they will survive in International cricket.There are too many substandard teams in domestic cricket against whom a half decent batsman can score big and improve his domestic average. Misbah after getting dropped went back to domestic cricket and in the first match he scored 284 no but we all know what happened when he returned to International cricket.
Fawad has an average of 41 in test matches but in five out of six innings he scored just 16.5.
Similarly you can score big in one or two domestic matches and improve your average.
Mohammad Yousaf and Younis Khan two of the best batsmen in Pakistan they are not ranked even in the top 30 list.
Nobody in the history of Pakistan’s domestic cricket has been more dominating player than Mansoor Akhtar but he failed miserably in International cricket Hasan Raza is another example and there are many more like them.
Most of the senior players who are in National team they only play selected matches in the final round when the quality of the competition is higher than the earlier rounds.
Khurram Manzoor averaged 68 this year in domestic cricket, Kamran Akmal averaged 60 and Misbah a whopping 86 but their performance in international cricket does not reflect their domestic form which only leads us to the conclusion that the standard of our domestic cricket is extremely low.
I read in one of your comments somewhere else that if Sarfraz can make a score of 30 on a regular basis he will be much better than Akmal who scores big after every four or five innings. But the same argument when Stani presented it for Malik you completely dismissed it.
Fawad may have played just three test matches but he has played 14 Odis in three years and have been with the team since last two to three years in 14 Odis how many matches he has won for us he has just one score above 50 again his average is 42 because of the 7 not outs.
I am in no way suggesting that he can’t become a great player in future all I am saying is right now he is not ready.
He scored big in the first innings but since then he is struggling because his shortcomings have been worked out and unless he works on them and improves his technique he will continue to struggle.
January 19th, 2010 at 8:35 pm
Wasim,
If Fawad Alam’s technical flaw is a hinderance, then how was he able to open on a seaming pitch and make 168?
The lack of footwork of Shoaib Malik (absolutely non-existent) justifies his batting average and you support him?
In fact he averages 8 in England and 3 in NZ in ODIs. Have you seen Malik’s travails against the short ball?
And, Akmal hasn’t got much footwork either.
So, basically, you have two methodoligies to judge two different players. Malik has 2 centuries in his career and Alam has one big century in 4 matches. You can’t judge Malik’s inability thru a period of many, many years, but you can judge a player like Alam on the basis of 4 matches?
Also, if Fawad were to make a big hundred every 4 matches, that for me is better than Malik’s 20s,30s in every match. 160s win you test matches, 20s, 30s may or may not win you 20/20s. For me a player is good, if he makes the most of it when he gets set– that is a batsman, who starts ‘seeing’ the ball, not a converted bowler who is as good at 2 as he is at 30. No offense, you need to build upon your basic cricket acumen to realize what constitues a batsman.
You are giving examples of players who have flunked at international level and yet done well at first-class cricket. But I have given you examples of players who have done well at international cricket, and almost all of them have done well at domestic cricket. Thus, unfortunately, if you are going to pick players for international cricket, first-class averages are a good indicator. Not all players who do well at first-class cricket do well at international cricket, but almost none who do well at international cricket don’t do well at first-class cricket. Have you seen Malik’s average at the first-class level?
As for Kamran Akmal, the discussion is futile. The bottomline is that he is not a wicketkeeper.
January 19th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
Not all players who do well at first-class cricket do well at international cricket, but almost all who do well at international cricket do well at first-class cricket. Have you seen Malik’s average at the first-class level?
January 19th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
You are likening Alam to Chenderpaul who is a great player and yet supporting Malik to be in the team. That is ludicrous. Sorry. Because even in an argument, you are lacking basic logic. Because, firstly, you are trying to say that Alam can’t succeed at international cricket because of his faulty technique, yet the genius in you is also giving the example of a player who averages 50 and has the same technique ‘in order to show that he Alam can’t succeed’. Wow, Wasim, wow…take no offense, but at this rate, you will also have to work on your argumentative skills along the way.
January 19th, 2010 at 10:35 pm
Omer
Your over sarcasm and aggressive tone is not going to help win you an argument it will only reflect your inability to consider opinions made by others.
If I copy Brian Lara’s stance will it make me Brian Lara or if any body starts emulating Tendulkar’s style will it make them Sachin? I think you are skim reading my comments,
this is what I wrote:
“If you can’t see what’s wrong with Fawad’s batting then this discussion is futile, he has no footwork he has copied Chanderpaul’s stance but he can’t survive with this stance unless he improves his footwork and improves his timing and becomes a better on side player.”
And this is what you understood
You are likening Alam to Chenderpaul who is a great player and yet supporting Malik to be in the team. Because, firstly, you are trying to say that Alam can’t succeed at international cricket because of his faulty technique, yet the genius in you is also giving the example of a player who averages 50 and has the same technique ‘in order to show that he Alam can’t succeed’.
If you are going to twist my arguments and alter them to prove your point then I am sorry to say you have already lost the argument.
Both Smith and ChanderPaul are strong onside players they rarely miss any thing bowled on their pads because their foot work is not flawed like Fawad’s.
Fawad moves too much in the crease he is not a strong wrist player as Smith and ChanderPaul and often misses the ball while playing across the line his big movements in the crease often strand him right in front of the wickets, in New Zealand he got out in similar fashion in both innings, he couldn’t handle the short balls.
It’s not that he was dropped after that 168 run innings he failed in five test innings after that and three Odi innings.
The flaws are obvious but you don’t want to accept that they exist,all the commentators in Srilanka pointed out the flaws in his foot work, in NewZealand he was struggling against the pace of Bond and was visibly looking uncomfortable against short pitched stuff.
Not everybody who excels in domestic cricket also excels at International level that was exactly my point, Players who have confidence, stamina, determination and technique they excel at all levels. Fawad has the first three but lacks in the most important one and that is technique.
As I said his flaws are too obvious and have been worked out by other teams unless he improves his technique he is not going to score another big score.
You said ” The lack of footwork of Shoaib Malik (absolutely non-existent) justifies his batting average and you support him?”
Malik also scored a big 100 in Srilanka but you don’t remember that he also scored a 100 against India In CT but you again forgot that is it selective amnesia or what?
He just scored 57 in last test against Australia but you only see 20′s and 30′s but Fawad’s 100 three series ago is still fresh in your mind.
I am not saying Malik is indespensable or doing a great job no he is not but the players who are available to replace him are not any better than him.
As regards Kamran Akmal and Yousaf I would only like to know if there was a foul play behind their poor performance if not then Akmal will be back in the shorter formats.
January 20th, 2010 at 4:25 am
Omer
I agree Fawad is better than Faisal, absolutely. I DO think he was given a decent run against Sri Lanka and then a match against New Zealand; 6 innings in total. The problem he had that he scored over 30 in just one of those 6 innings. Do I want to see Misbah, Malik and Faisal keep swapping places in and out of the team? Definitely not. I would love for Fawad to take the spot but he didn’t help himself. He will get another chance, I’m sure, but this time it won’t be as long or as forgiving. I honestly hope he takes it.
I agree that every player has his nature but how long can we carry and wait for people using first team international games? We cannot do so for too long on that stage. Some would say Fawad didn’t get enough of a chance, and some, quoting the above, would say he did. It’s a difficult decision backing a youngster, I admit, because if it doesn’t work out, it can be disastrous for the team, management and most importantly for the youngster.
So you believe Umar should open? Hmmm, I’m not certain. He is quality but that is the most difficult position to bat. Do you think he has the technique to handle the new swinging ball?
I do agree with you about Malik’s Test average not being impressive but would you say his constant changing in the order are mitigating circumstances?
As for the low domestic averages of some of our batsmen that you quoted; I think the fact that they have been selected for International duty meant that they would then not be playing domestic cricket i.e. correcting those averages. So to look down upon someone’s domestic averages when they have been away from the domestic leagues playing international cricket cannot give us an accurate impression.
I am also beginning to wonder about Akmal’s keeping credentials. I say this because he still has that same flaw he had a few years ago when he struggled in England. It’s the flaw of someone who cannot catch, it is hard hands. Stand up to a spinner behind the stumps with hard hands and the ball will just pop out which is exactly what Akmal does. He just hasn’t learnt. Also, his wicket keeping footwork (very important for pacers) is awful.
We should try to see if one of our current batsmen can keep! May discover an Alec Stewart or something and it would free up a batting place
January 20th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
Wasim,
Alam made a 168 as an opener, on a seaming pitch. You are finding faults in his technique, which is ridiculous, because apart from Yousof, which player in the Pakistan side is technically gifted? When was the last time a Pakistani opener made more than 150?
And, he did it as a makeshift opener.
Against Bond on a seaming track, being scapegoated one-down, so that the ‘experienced’ players can come 3-down or 4-down, anyone can look foolish. It’s like saying Mcgrath or Akram made so-and-so look bad on a seaming track, which would be most good batsman. In fact Ponting struggled and looked a novice to in his first 2 matches. When its high-quality bowling on a pitch that is offering a bit, and the batsman is not set, anyone can look pretty ordinary. If the batsman gets set, its a different thing.
Btw Malik played 2 tests in NZ and averaged 11.55 in that same series. So, you can pick on Alam who batted one-down against Bond against the new ball, but Malik who came 5-down and failed miserably, and who has a long-term average of 36, deserves to be in the team. Just look at Malik’s techniue, it is the worst thing I have seen in international cricket, its like he is squatting flies on his two feet, trying to inhibit any movement so as not to make the flies aware of any presence, lest they fly away.
Again you keep on saying that some players who did well in first-class cricket didn’t do well in international cricket, but what I have written above is, almost all the players who did well in international cricket did well in domestic cricket (you can see the correlation between test and first-class averages of any of the good Pakistani players).
On Akmal he has a history of dropping catches, he has dropped probably more than 100 catches in international cricket, and now you are trying to think about ‘foul play’, a conspiracy theory so to speak.
I can accept a different opinion, but when it is based on superficial logic and derides something fairly obvious (Malik is not a test level player), I accept it as an inferior, low-quality opinion.
January 20th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Stani Army,
I totally agree with you on Akmal, he has a technical flaw, he doesn’t let the ball come towards him, he moves his hands towards the ball. And, it is not just in England that he dropped so many catches, he dropped catches left, right, and center in SA (5-6 in one, single test match as I remember– 3 of Kallis) and Pakistan lost the series 2-1 because of those dropped catches. One commentator on cricinfo wrote, after seeing all that, that the unluckiest way to get out in cricket was ‘caught’ Akmal. Not only that, when SA came to Pakistan, he dropped Kallis twice in the first match, first innings and he made a big 100. He dropped Kallis again in the second innings in the same match, and he Kallis again made a 100. SA won the match. In the next match, he dropped Smith who made a big 100 and SA dominated the match, which was drawn courtesy Younis Khan’s matchsaving 100 in the fourth innings. Akmal then carried this form into Abu Dhabi– on the ODI series– where he kept on dropping catches left, right, and center.
I concur with you, the first job of a wicketkeeper is to keep wickets. Kamran Akmal is the worst wicketkeeper I have seen in international cricket, without doubt.
January 20th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Stani Army,
Umar Akmal could open and play a Sehwag-like role. Just demolish the opposition’s confidence. I think technically he is pretty good, and he watches the ball till the end. And, generally pitches are flat– in Australia only the pitch in the second test match had any movement. So, on that basis, I think if Umar Akmal is allowed to play his natural game, it’d be better for the team. It would be an utter waste of his natural ability to convert him into the mould of some of the defensive batsmen around.
January 20th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Omer
First of all it was no longer a seaming track the pitch offered movement and bounce only in the first day.
The myth that it was a seaming track was created by you know who.
These are the excerpts from the articles on Cricinfo.
After first days play
“In Kulasekara’s opinion the pitch had eased out and was favouring the batsmen although there was some movement and bounce in it for the bowlers. “The pitch will favour the batsmen for the next one to one-and-a-half days,” he said.
“It was obvious that Fawad didn’t possess the required technique, and his shuffle across the stumps proved to be his downfall. What is inexplicable is that Fawad was the fifth wicket to fall. This is not to take away any credit from Nuwan Kulasekara, who bowled a good spell, but check the highlights package, read the ball-by-ball commentary – neither the pitch nor the bowling was lethal enough for his bowling figures to read 3.4-0-6-3.”
After the third days play
“Khurram Manzoor and Fawad did that by adding 85 for the first wicket, looking untroubled at most times on a pitch that had lost most of its pace. Kulasekara, the first-innings destroyer, didn’t get much swing, while the lack of pace meant both batsmen had enough time to adjust their strokes.”
“The pitch remained a pretty good one for batting, though the bounce had diminished, but Pakistan relied on lethal spells of reverse swing, aided by steady spin and an inspirational bit of fielding, to launch an astonishing revival, and then continued it with an utterly disciplined and purposeful batting display.”
On his technique
“Fawad Alam 168 v Sri Lanka
second Test, Colombo
Fawad had never opened in a first-class game till this match, and there was nothing to suggest a debut century was on its way: his big shuffle left him suspect against the moving ball, he had scored 16 in a total of 90 in the first innings, and Pakistan were trailing by 150 when they started the second innings. In scoring 168, Fawad showed that he could make up for faulty technique with temperament. He put Pakistan in a position from where they could control the game – though only for them to collapse again and lose the series 0-2. ”
“The hard work that New Zealand had to put in for the last seven wickets was in complete contrast to how easily the first five wickets fell in the morning session. Gul took out the last two New Zealanders for just six runs. And Khurram Manzoor, Imran Farhat and Fawad Alam showed they were too loose to form the top order of a Test side.”
“Fawad Alam was merely lamb to the slaughter today, opening for the first time in first-class cricket, while making his Test debut. The technique was inadequate, as he was trapped on his huge shuffle.”
You are stuck on that 168 and are ignoring the 4 test innings and 3 odi innings which followed that innings.
Yasir Hameed scored three consecutive centuries after making his debut but what happened afterwards other teams worked him out but the genius in you is failing to comprehend this simple fact that it can happen to Fawad also.
Again you failed to register a simple logic that those who prove themselves equally in domestic cricket and in international cricket possess sound technique which Fawad lacks.
Just because you are seeing qualites in him in your imagination which others can’t see doesn’t mean that the judgement of all the professional experts who commented on his technique is substandard or weak.
Kamran Akmal had a good year behind the stumps until the Sydney test. In my opinion Sarfraz should play test matches and Pakistan will have to figure out other ways to strengthen the batting line up but in limited overs cricket Sarfraz’s inclusion will damage the team combination.
As regards Malik I have already said he is not indispensable but the current replacements are not any better than him.
January 20th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
Omer/Wasim
The trouble with Fawad’s 168 was that it was the innings of his life. He dug in and used everything he had, but no one can take that much out of themselves every innings – it’s not human. It’s all his other innings, and not this one, that tell us more about him i.e. that innings was exceptional, what are his normal innings like?
I think we can all agree that he deserves another decent chance to see if he can cut it. May be the Tests in England; the tough conditions will tell us everything we need to know.
What I can also say is if our back-up/reserves/youngsters gave a stronger case in the few opportunities they have had, then the likes of Faisal, Malik and Misbah would not still be hanging around the first team. Aamer and Umar have proved, if you come in and do well, you will stay.
Omer
I think one positive Umar does have on his side in regards to the opening argument is that he has an exceptional ‘eye’. Some of the shots he plays are quite astonishing. The other good thing would be the field restrictions in the limited form will aid his scoring. At the moment, the highest he could probably come in (without opening) is probably 5th. After considering what he potentially may become (described by Martin Crowe as the next great Pakistan batsman) 5th may be too low for us to get the best from him. I would like to see him come in at 3 ideally, but then Yousuf and Younis will have to move down…Yousuf 4th, Younis 5th.
January 20th, 2010 at 7:58 pm
Wasim,
Look, all I am saying is, when a player who has failed for 7-8 years (both in domestic first-class and international test cricket) gets a chance despite consistent failures and bad teqnique, why shouldn’t a player who has played 4 matches, who doesn’t exhibit sound technique, but has done well at first-class with that teqnique, be tried in his place on a more consistent basis?
I never claimed Fawad Alam is the next big thing, all I am saying is, he can’t be worse than Malik. It is hard to imagine a batsman worse than Malik in test cricket in any of the international teams, perhaps apart from Bangladesh. So, when you are thinking about constructing a team, you could use some basic logic:
Player A is a known failure and, with certainty, he bats with a very, very ordinary average of 36
Player B might average, say, 50 with a certain probability– if he is good– or he may average, say, 38-40 with (1- that probability) if he isn’t really good.
At choice, which one will you choose?
As for your whole post on that cricinfo article, I don’t read much into it, because I saw that match. There as movement in the pitch, slow or fast doesn’t matter, but there was movement. The batting order collapsed as soon as him and Younis were out. When was the last time a Pakistani opener made a 150?
Technique is over-rated. I don’t believe much in the ‘orthodox technique’ so long as a player has his ‘own’ technique. There are too many good players out there without the orthodox technique, but Shoaib Malik is not a good player and without ‘any’ technique.
On what ‘basis’ do you say the current replacements aren’t any better than him?
As for Kamran Akmal, if Pakistan didn’t play many test matches, he wasn’t as exposed in the last year or two. When Kaneria joined the team, it was only a matter of time.
As far as I am concerned, if a player doesn’t know keeing, he doesn’t know keeping. If he could keep wickets, then I’d compare batting of players, but for me, comparing Kamran Akmal with some other wicketkeeper is like comparing Inzamam with some other wicketkeeper for their wicketkeeping skills. Logically, if he isn’t a wicketkeeper, then the question should be, whether he is a batsman? Maybe in 20/20, but not in ODI’s or Test matches.
January 20th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
Stani Army,
Umar Akmal has an exceptional eye and also a reasonable technique. But the reason, I’d prefer him to open is that he has a natural style of play. He instinctually plays aggresively, that is what has worked for him wherever he has played, so why ask him to change that?
And, when he comes down the order, the team is usually under so much pressure that has to inhibit his natural style of play. Therefore, he ends up playing, say, 60 percent of what he may be able to otherwise. One-down again, he’d be coming pretty soon in the innings, with one batsman out. In that case he will have to avoid risk and perhaps still inhibit his natural style of play.
January 20th, 2010 at 8:50 pm
Omer
You do make a compelling case for Fawad’s inclusion. Had we not wasted Asim Kamal may be we would not be having this trouble. Excellent temperament and simple style. I also think you and Wasim agree more on Kamran Akmal than it may seem to an outsider.
In regards to where Umar comes in; the question is, do we want him to be Sehwag or do we want him to be a Ponting? I know they are both exceptional players but Ponting is an all-round class act. With Sehwag, if he gets out, it doesn’t matter because that’s the way he plays. This is how he is thought of. With Ponting, if he gets out its a big wicket. I want Umar’s wicket to be that important and I want him to be that important a player (eventually). Can he be this at the opening position where he is free to play without concern?
Both are attacking but Ponting has different gears which is a sign of the best batsmen, and those that usually come in at 3. I’m not saying that Ponting is better than Sehwag, just suggesting that I’d want to see Umar emulate some one of his mould than Sehweg’s because he would be more important to the team. I just don’t want him opening and being aggressive and that’s it. I think he has more to him than that….more strings to his bow.
Also, there is, a) playing under pressure, and there’s b) playing with value on your wicket and being mindful of the match situation. Some may confuse both with ‘pressure’ as both can hinder aggressive/instinctive play. Yet b) is the way every one of our batsmen should play and it is not pressure but intelligence. This is probably the one most important thing which is missing from our batsmen. Our openers should play with b) too.
January 21st, 2010 at 12:35 am
Omer
I saw that match too and was disgusted by the performance of the later batsmen. What happened after that series just because of that we can easily understand why that collapse happened.
The pitch didn’t had any demons after the first day I don’t think that the experts were wrong.
But anyways lets conclude this debate.
We are caught in this confusion resulting from the choice between mediocre players.One disappoints and gets dropped and the one who takes his place disappoints even more. This confusion will never end until this merry go round of mediocre players will stop.
I have never said that Malik is indispensable all I am saying that his replacement is not ready yet. Fawad has failed in 7 consecutive innings. Yes he did played that innings of 168 and since then Malik has also played several good innings but occasional big innings will only result in inconsistency.
Neither I am against Fawad nor I have any favoritism for Malik, I am only judging them from their performance since the SriLankan series. To me Fawad looked scratchy and Malik despite getting several good starts have not shown the temprament and will to finish the job. If Fawad had grabbed the opportunity like Umar Akmal we wouldn’t even be discussing him at this stage. And as you pointed out time has run out for Malik we cannot continue with him if he is not going to finish the job.
There is hardly any difference between an average of 41 and 36 especially when this average is achieved on the basis of one good score and is based on just 6 innings it can go in either direction,you never know when will he score his next 50 but right now the probability is 1/6 which doesn’t solve the inconsistency problem. If Fawad had scored 40 in every innings then he would have been the obvious choice.He has played 14 Odi’s and scored one 50 a probability of 1/14 by no means is attractive and doesn’t justify the hype surrounding him.
But I still believe he deserves another chance to prove himself in test matches because he has the temprament to play a long innings.
The fragility of our batting is a complex problem and it will remain complex because we drop a player and bring him back after two matches because his replacement also fails, we never check if he has rectified his flaws. We don’t set individual goals and expectations for different players.
I know you don’t agree with players throwing matches but I firmly believe that some players are involved in foul play and this has been going on for quite some time.
In one innings the batting fails in the second bowling and if both come under fire then in next match catches are dropped. The funny thing is that the collapse always happens when the betting odds are always favoring Pakistan but still it’s a conspiracy.
Nothing will change unless a proper inquiry is done and we get rid of the culprits.
The team management should have no right to select the playing 11. And the youngsters should be told how many matches they are being given to prove themselves and what are the expectations from them.
Similarly the seniors should also be told about the expectations from them and if they fail then it’s time to move on.
India can afford to give Sehwag a license to kill because they have the batting depth, we cannot afford that, for us it’s better if he bats when the ball is old.
January 21st, 2010 at 5:06 pm
Wasim,
There is a difference between an average of 41 and an average of 36. Especially, since in test matches, each batsman plays twice. If 10 batsmen in a team were to average 41, and if a team were to bat twice, at average, the difference between the two would be 100 runs per match. Often times this is the difference between winning and losing a match.
On the other hand, you are saying Malik lacks temperament or has temperament or whatever– the point is his incapacity to make big scores. I don’t associate that with temperament, I associate that with zone, in that, a player starts seeing a cricket ball as a football when set. That is the natural talent and eye of a player (the way I see it). Having the technique is one thing, but when the player starts seeing the ball, he usually makes a big score (this is why I’d say Lara was one of the more talented players).
Malik came in the team as a bowler and converted himself as a batsman. Therefore, imho, I don’t feel he is the talent to become a batsman, and his average and consistent low scores support that. And, the point you fail to see is that, this is his long-term average, not 5 match average.
Enough of the mediocrity, it is not as though the player who has played a certain way for the last 8 years will transform himself and suddenly get the talent to play big knocks. For him, it is not a matter of hitting the ‘zone’, he has to concentrate all the time to stay in there, and eventually, as anyone would, he loses it.
On this basis, rather than thinking backward, that there is no replacement, I’d think that when a player has proved himself to be mediocre, there is no point keeping him, because there is nothing to lose. Another player can only be better than him, but not worse.
January 21st, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Omer
We are discussing two batsmen not 10. If a choice is made between a player who is averaging 36 over a player who is averaging 41 the difference would be just 10 runs in two innings. May be you can impress Ovais with these statistical skills but not me.
If you factor in that this average is based on one big score then we can expect a decent contribution in every sixth innings the rest of the five will be disappointing.
You are supporting your argument based on just 1 innings whereas I am supporting my argument based on his 14 Odi and 6 test innings. In 20 innings he has just one 50 and one 100.
So the probability of him scoring a score above 50 is 2/20.
It’s important to note here that his only Odi 50 is against HongKong.
Srilanka series
Fawad Alam 16 168 16 16
Malik 38 0 39 6 45 134
What is the difference between the above score lines?
The scores of Malik other than his 100 were half way decent as compared to Fawads three scores of 16.
Based on this performance I can’t believe how people can hype up one player so high that he is compared to players like Micheal Bevan and Brian Lara.
Where as the other player is regarded as a complete failure.
Technique and temprament are the more important than natural talent. In case of Afridi, Imran Nazir and many others in Pakistan we have seen that they have talent similar to that of Sehwag or Dilshan but they do not have the temprament like them. Technique is the most important if you do not have good technique and do not have a full range of strokes then the probability that you will score consistently will be very low of course there will be instances when a player just plays within his limitations and scores big like Fawad did in Colombo.
January 21st, 2010 at 7:22 pm
hmmm I think both Malik and Fawad are little bit same, both can bat and bowl as well, both are mediocre, both don’t have it in them what it take to be a great player.
So for the sake of team Fawad got an edge, he is young energetic and more loyal than Malik (considering his politics with seniors) Fawad is also willing to put some effort in to make his career but Malik is consistently only performing when his position in team is on edge check out his series stats and his final match stat and see the difference. Fawad is future if we can convert him into a better player but Malik will fade away in 2 , 3 years anyway. So investing in Fawad is investing for future so I will vote for Fawad instead of Malik unless we have much better options.
January 21st, 2010 at 7:58 pm
Reverse
All of your points are valid.
Except that you are willing to invest 3-4 years on a player who is visibly mediocre.
I think we should play both of them interchangeably in next two series and see if one performs better than the other right now I don’t see any clear advantage which one has over the other.
January 22nd, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Wasim
That is a good point. You guys keep making me go Fawad, Malik, Fawad, Malik. I’m starting to feel a bit of empathy for our selectors and I never thought I’d say that! What are you doing!?
I suppose the question to ask, and this is linked to Omer’s point, is can you teach an old dog new tricks? If the answer is yes, then Malik should continue getting chances along with the youngster Fawad. There are examples where older players have improved remarkably. One is Afridi and his bowling and another, Rana Naved and his batting. Can Malik go through such a process?
January 22nd, 2010 at 4:05 pm
Stani
Afridi has completely transformed his batting since that T20 WC. Before that tournament he was going through a lean patch some people said that he will never get out of it his hand eye coordination is no longer there but he made a strong come back and is the best all rounder right now in the world.
Malik should be told by the selectors that he is no longer playing in the team as an all rounder he is playing as a specialist batsman and given his experience he has to score @ average of 50 in a season if he can’t then he should be dropped we will be better off playing Kamran Akmal at #6 in Odi’s and open with Nazir. In test matches Fawad Alam, or any other youngster who becomes ready should take up his position.
But here I want to remind you of 2006-7 when many of the senior players were criticised and dropped from the team, most of them left for ICL. It took us a year and a half to realize that those players were still better than the so called promising juniors.
We got most of them back in the team. Form is temporary and class is permanent I don’t see that class in Fawad or Khurram may be it’s too early to judge them but that is my opinion for now.
January 23rd, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Wasim,
You are failing to see one thing, one player is a tried and tested failure for the past 8 years. He isn’t just ‘visibly’ mediocre, he is with certainty mediocre. You can’t teach a player how to bat at the age of 30– it is like pushing the issue. As such, he is totally redundant, and Fawad Alam seems like a good replacement for that 168.
January 23rd, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Omer
He is mediocre but so is Fawad, I don’t think he is a failure he has better average than Younis Khan in Odi’s in T20 he has been one one of our key players in test matches he has been mediocre at best but so is his replacement.
January 23rd, 2010 at 9:39 pm
You keep on missing the point. It seems to me that you have some biases within, and at your age, it is quite unfortunate.
Because there is a difference between a player who is mediocre for 8-9 years and a player that, to you, ‘looks’ mediocre. I mean this is basic logic, when things are not working out, you change the player, regardless of who the replacement is..
January 23rd, 2010 at 9:41 pm
I am primarily discussing test matches– for the life of me I can’t understand how Malik can be a test match level player. The way I see it, it is the foundation of a strong cricketing culture, and success in it bodes well for all formats of the game.
Malik is not a ‘key’ player in any of the formats though.
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Omer
We all have our biases and rest assured that you have yours too. May be when you will grow up and get maturer you will understand.
You keep on clinging to this career span argument, but do not want to understand what I am saying, Malik is not indispensable but Fawad so far has not proved that he is good enough to replace him. You are seeking a change just for the sake of it. In 14 Odis and 3 test matches how many times when Fawad replaced Malik he actually made any significant difference? None.
Ofcourse now you will quote his 168 but will again ignore Malik’s 134 and then I am the one who is biased.
If he had made any difference I assure you we would not be having this argument right now.
And what makes you think Fawad is a key player for any format?
January 24th, 2010 at 2:17 am
Malik’s 134 in the last 8 years, Fawad Alam’s 168 within his first few matches, as an opener (when was the last time a Pakistani opener made more than 150?.
We all have our biases, that is right, but some are based on sound logic and are right and some aren’t and are wrong. Unfortunately, perception isn’t reality; and every opinion isn’t equal, but of course anyone has a right to express himself. This is the beauty of free societies, you get your say as well.
January 24th, 2010 at 2:55 am
Omer
Anyone of us can have a wrong perception or an error of judgement and as you said we are entitled to our opinions which may be biased or we might percieve our difference of opinion as bias.
The best thing is that time is the best judge and within a year or so we will both know whether Fawad possess some hidden potential which he hasn’t been able to fully display in his short career so far or was it just an illusion and he was as mediocre as Malik.
But nobody will be more happy than me if Pakistan gets a dependable batsman in Fawad. My best wishes are with him, I hope he proves himself whenever he gets a chance.
January 24th, 2010 at 4:00 am
Wasim,
I am glad to heae that you wish him well. In fact if you notice we agree on the most part.
January 24th, 2010 at 4:13 am
Wow finally you guys agreed to something. You look like exhausted to all this, can we move on now.
I am wondering if only two less significant players position is so debatable how will be the whole team as our team is nothing near to stability with his lineup like our board or even country.
Wondering what changes they will make today for Sydney.
January 24th, 2010 at 4:56 am
Reverse
I told them that they agree more than they think a while ago!
…they’re both wrong though, Faisal Iqbal is better than Malik and Fawad….JOKE!
March 18th, 2010 at 1:59 am
It’s a perfect post, Stani!