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Should Younis Apologise?
By Tabrez Janjua for Stani Army in Pakistan Cricket
149 ViewsIt seems that the continuation of Younis Khan’s international cricket career is entirely dependent on him apologising to the PCB. Of the six punished players to have filed their appeals, it is believed that Younis is the only one who did not apologise for his behaviour, whereas the others did, so have been welcomed back in to the international fold.
It was obvious that something wasn’t right as despite Younis’ appeal, his name was not included in the squad for the Asia Cup unlike that of Shoaib Malik, who had also appealed his ban and was included in the squad. It was believed at the time that Younis’ appeal had been put back because he wanted a personal hearing to clear things up rather than, in effect, admit to a guilty plea like the others in return for having his place back.
Sorry? But I didn't do anything!
Certainly with the weak looking batting line-up chosen for England, Pakistan could have done with Younis’ services. Just to get a taste of how fragile our batting has been and how dependent it has been on Younis Khan and Mohammed Yousuf; I read statistics the other day that the pair have score 30% of Pakistan’s Test runs since October 2004. Not only that, they’re responsible for almost half of our Test centuries also.
One of the main problems Pakistan have had in not being able to win Test matches is their inability to put up large totals. The bowlers have to remove the opposition having only a ODI batting total to back them up. With the batting line-up chosen for England, and having scored more than 300 in only 11 of the last 30 innings, it looks like Pakistan’s Test problems will continue. Though new captain Shahid Afridi performed admirably with the bat in the Asia Cup with two brilliant centuries, we cannot expect him to step up to the plate all of the time.
So, is Younis right to be taking this stance or is the PCB being too fussy and childish? What is it that Younis has supposedly done and will be apologising for anyway? Many would argue that he should apologise for the sake of it as it is obvious how much his country needs him. But if ‘sorry’ is a hard word to say for the likes of us, then it is near enough impossible, not only for a Pathan, but one that thinks he is innocent.
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June 26th, 2010 at 5:11 am
Stani
In 2009 YK played 7 test innings and this is his score.
313, 25, 3,0,82, 2,19.
We all know what on kind of wicket he scored the 313. His domestic form has been extremely poor.
I don’t know why we are even missing him he has flopped in county cricket hasn’t proved his form in domestic cricket he is completely out of form or finished.
If we are going to include a player just on past reputation and records then bring back Miandad or Inzamam.
Now here is a brief history of YK he had altercations with last three board chairman’s.
The first one was with Shehryar Khan who made him wait outside his office for a little while when Younis went to see him regarding the case of a fired peon. YK resigned as a captain and a few days later the situation got so out of control that Shehryar Khan had to resign.
He had an altercation with Nasim Ashraf and refused to take over captaincy at a critical time when Pakistan really needed him, he wanted too many powers and a major say in selectorial matters.
He had a public spat with Qadir and Yawar Saeed, the group which backs him is completely jingoistic apparently they wanted to get rid of several Punjabi players, the propaganda is so strong that players like Khurram, Lateef, Sohail Khan, Fawad Alam have become national heroes without giving a single match winning performance and the players who win us matches every now and then have become villains.
It would be naive to believe that YK had no part in team politics. For a moment even if we believe that all of his altercations were for a good cause but what excuse he or his supporters have for not playing domestic cricket to improve his form each time he had a spat with the board he went on a fishing trip.
I think he is a controversial character who has a serious attitude problem which offends everybody around him.
Now should he apologise yes he should. Why is his ego so big that whenever he wants he ditches the team and wants to make a comeback on his on terms, Iam sorry to say he is not that big of a player.
He has been a ” Andhon mein Kana raja” through out his career internationally he has been mediocre at best.
I am sure you must have read the news in which Rashid Latif challenged Pakistan team to beat his team, his team included only one Punjabi player and that was Mohammad Yousaf the rest are all Karachi based players. Can somebody tell that Idiot to ask his team to first beat Sialkot Stallions then challenge the national team.
Don’t pay attention to all the hue and cry in the media about YK it’s all politics and propaganda.
June 26th, 2010 at 6:30 am
@Wasim –
Buddy. Get a life, stop playing the ‘provinces” card. Younis Khan is the only mature and experienced player in Pakistan right now, apart from Misbah who’s a complete failure.
Although i’ll agree with you on Latif’s case. I’ve lately noticed his comments to be stupid and backing only Karachi based players. And for you to say taht Khurram, Fawad have become national heroes is clearly a exaggerated. But yes, Fawad does have the capability and the fire in him to be have a better future in cricket, only if he is given more chances
Apart from this Younis kHan has been mistreated. He deserves to be back in the team. And PCB needs to be revamped. Someone please fire mr.Butt
June 26th, 2010 at 11:02 am
@Wasim –
I agree with you in regards to Younis’ form which has been up and down in his recent Surrey stint also. But what I find it difficult is how the likes of Malik and the Akmals can be so easily forgiven, but Yousuf and Younis are taken for a ride. Let’s be honest, only Umar Akmal of the three would be worth forgiving if we were to consider their talent. The other issue is the sanctimony being shown by the PCB. How on earth can they have the nerve to take the moral high ground? A total flushing out and restructuring of the administration is one thing you, Rafi and I could agree on. Though Afridi may deny it, the fact is that Younis has not been excluded for form reasons from the side.
Yes, we have discussed Younis’ hot-headedness in the past. He would have enhanced his reputation much more had he taken a step back before doing the things you mentioned. In most of the cases, he had the better hand and still managed to come out of it second best.
Bring back Inzi and Miandad
Then we’d have to bring back nephew Faisal too! Maybe he could be the runner for both in every innings? Although I’d feel sorry for him when they’re both in at the same time!
June 26th, 2010 at 11:04 am
@Rafi –
I used to value Latif’s comments too but I have noticed him making a few strange ones lately. Through frustration maybe? I have sensed in the past that he has tried being involved in the international side of our game more but has been shunned because of his match-fixing revelations of the past. His intentions behind his revelations at that time are open to debate but he did begin to become sidelined as a player after it.
I have to slightly disagree with you in regards to Misbah. Though he was late on the international scene, he was even still messed around in regards to selection, and when he was selected, his role in the side and the number he came in to bat. I think he has been left to play the sacrificial innings most of the time and has been harshly judged because of it. Unlike like Younis’ domestic form, Misbah is doing very well and has not been afraid to go back and do the hard graft. Moved up in the line up, I think he could have been a steady hand to have in this batting line up chosen for England. I just cannot see where our runs will be coming from in the Tests.
June 26th, 2010 at 7:48 pm
@Rafi
I am living a life which many people can only dream of, I am not playing any province card only stated the hard core facts, I would have appreciated if you had made counter arguments substantiated by evidence to prove me wrong rather than suggesting me to get a life.
You were quick to point out Misbah’s form but totally ignored Yk’s form and his performance in international and domestic cricket as Stani pointed out.
This has been my main objection why we use double standards to judge different players?
The whole nation was with Younis Khan including PCB on the match fixing scandal nobody told him to quit, he is too hot headed, no employer in the world tolerates an employee who consistently tires to snub it’s employer and is always trying to pick a fight with everyone, YK was tough with all the players and the team management but never tried to improve his own form which was one of the main reasons for Pakistan team’s failure under him.
You can’t dream to become Imran Khan unless you have the ability to perform like him, I think Younis only picked up Imran’s hot headedness and thought that his dictatorial powers were the only reason for his success as a captain. I think he was totally wrong, Imran always led from the front and earned the respect of his team mates and the management.
You are wrong about Fawad he got enough chances but he failed to capitalise on them except for the century on the debut he has done nothing in any form of cricket. Whereas players like Umar Akmal and Eoin Morgan who also bat lower are now established stars.
I think YK’s case is no different than Misbah both are old and out of form.
June 26th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Stani
The age factor and the capability to win matches weighed heavily in favor of Malik, Akmal brothers and Afridi, on top of that they admitted their mistakes which Younis Khan and Mohammad Yousaf are not doing, both have behaved very arrogantly they thought they were indispensable both players have frequently used their stature and position in the team to black mail and arm twist PCB several times, they never backed off from their stance and always told the management it’s either their way or the highway.
If this is not Players power then what else you would call it.
Mohammad Yousaf failed to take responsibility of the Australian tour and also failed to mend his relations with YK and Malik, he through under performance and conspiracies brought down both Malik and Younis Khan, there was clear evidence of him being directly involved in foul play during Australian and Kiwi tour, he was being backed by Inzi Mafia.
Players come and go, Yousaf and Younis are not the last two batsmen which Pakistan will ever produce there will be many more it’s only a matter of giving chances to the youngsters and properly grooming the.What Afridi said about Younis was true he is out because of indiscipline and form, I don’t see any other reason why Butt & co would want to drop YK.
There is one other reason Yk’s lobby which mainly consists of Osman Sami and Rashid Latif have been very criticial of Butt’s administration, most of the times both of these guys show only one side of the picture and are completely biased in their views.
But I strongly believe that PCB made a terrible mistake by over turning the ban on Malik this is the only thing they have done wrong in this whole case, Malik thoroughly deserved the ban.
June 27th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
@Wasim –
Yes, I think the age factor has a lot to do with it. It seems that Yousuf, Younis and Misbah are being shunned because of it. I guess the PCB can add ageism to all their other isms!
What irks me is the reason why Malik and the Akmals admitted their mistakes. Was it because of genuine remorse or just to win back the bounty of their international places? I sit very uneasy with this. That’s one thing I admire about Yousuf and Younis’ stance.
I’m all for the youngsters, but when the disease has not been completely eradicated from the team, there is a chance it will spread to the new recruits. Had they gone all the way with a new team then I would have supported that, but these half measures just point to future problems.
I agree with you on Malik. I used to like him, but he has turned out be a pompous, trouble making character.
June 27th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Stani
But why do you think that YK and Yousaf were not a major part of the disease?
Performance wise they failed in every recent tour, they consistently caused trouble for the management in one way or the other and consistently dumped the team for their own motives. I think because of their past performances and overall stature we tend to forget very quickly the kind of troubles they have caused.
June 27th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
The “Bradman from Karachi” today scored just 14 runs @ Sr of 60 and then people like Basit Ali and Lateef say that he is being treated unfairly and doesn’t get enough chances.
It is surprising to note that these people only comment on Fawad when he is about to get dropped from the team but when he consistently scores 13′s and 14′s they have nothing to say.There criticism is only reserved for PCB and a certain group of players.
June 27th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
Just the fact that PCB is not telling Younis his crime and asking for apology and then being vengeful when not getting the apology is shameful on part of PCB! Shame on you yawar and butt !
June 27th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
@Wasim –
I’m not saying that they were not a major part, but the fact is that both of them have been treated differently from the others. This I find strange. The only conclusion I can come up with is they are trying to get rid of the older guys so they are able to control/dictate the youngsters better.
“Bradman of Karachi”, is that what they call Fawad? I would say Fawad has had a fair number of chances. If he had grasped them like Aamer and Umar Akmal did, he would be in the side like Aamer and Umar Akmal. He simply has not.
June 27th, 2010 at 7:03 pm
@Shehzad Ghani –
Yes, strange that the biggest culprits are asking for an apology. Maybe to cover their own flaws? Someone needs to take a harsh a look at the PCB as the PCB did with these players. But who?
June 28th, 2010 at 4:57 am
Like Afridi said discipline and form has been the major issues with Younis. He still doesn’t want to admit that he is doing anything wrong.
As regards the rebellion against him which prompted his resignation I think if a couple of players make a complain that can be called a personal grudge or leg pulling but if 9 players complain against him then there must be something seriously wrong.
It was Yousaf who led that group of players, it’s a simple case of groupism and clash of egos both players have refused to back off from there stance therefore they are still out of the team.
Some people think Younis was completely innocent, well we all know the views of his closest buddies Lateef and Basit it would be foolish to believe that these guys didn’t had an agenda there open declartion of war against certain players and management officials caused this whole friction in the team.
Who is right and who is wrong it is difficult for us to judge but the players they have been trying to bring into the team are even worst than the players they wanted to get rid of.
If it is wrong for Malik or Yousaf to have their lobby and play politics in the team the same goes for Younis and Afridi, the jingoistic groupism in the team got created because a witch hunt against certain players and a pressure group of certain karachi based media men and Ex cricketers.
The use of double standards in judging the performance of the players and the captains, and the treatment Sialkot Stallions recieved in Karachi by the crowd clearly shows what is the root cause of the problem.
I think those who love Pakistan cricket and want to see it survive they will have to condone all kinds of jingoistic politics whether it comes from the northern region or the southern region.
June 28th, 2010 at 8:00 am
@Waseem, appreciate if you keep your racist and regional comments with yourself, as for Fawad Alam case just like anyother player he was a middle order batsman and please let me know how many tests he has played in the middle order, infact he was asked to open the innings in Sirilanka when nobody was willing to even come at one down position. Umer Akmal is no doubt a better player then him but I think Fawad is a much better test player then a T20 player, because he has a temperament to play long innings (check his records for Pakistan A and domestic cricket) because he is nudger not a big hitter so he should have been selected in the test squad, unlike Imran Farhat who has been in the squad with no convincing innings to show and ontop of that he has been dropping catches (along with Kamran Akmal) that have resulted in a loss for the country.
June 28th, 2010 at 8:57 am
As far as Younis Khan ego issue is concerned, I for one definitely support him in this case, because he has taken the right stand against our Cricket Board who has been flip flopping and making a joke of our country by taking a decision one day and reversing it the very next day. Imagine if you are blamed for something and then fired from the job without any reason, will you just say Sorry and then go back to your job, or will you fight for your name to be cleared, I for one will definitely fight for my name to be cleared because I know I havent done anything wrong so why should I be sorry, instead its the board that should be sorry for their unprofessional and childish attitude. They have made us all look like a joke !!!
Some players and manager who conspired to play against the team and those who chose to play for ICL (read money) instead of representing their own country have been left off the hook and been re-selected in the team, whereas some poor guys who chose to represent the country are being cornered is a shame on all of us.
June 28th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
@Wasim –
I’m not sure Yousuf did lead that group otherwise he would not have asked for Younis to be called when he was captain on the Australian tour surely? There were rumours that Inzamam was involved but he has denied them of course.
June 28th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
@Roamer –
I think Wasim was just highlighting the regionalism that exists and that some are involved in, rather than taking part in it himself. What’s your view? Do you think it exists amongst the selectors, players and ex-cricketers? Do you think there is favouritism of where in Pakistan certain players come from?
I do agree that there is a case for Fawad being in the Test squad especially with the line-up that is here in England, but lower order batsman for me.
June 28th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
@TJ, I dont think we have regional bias in the team, but political bias exists for sure, case in point is Imran Farhat (thanks to his father in law who is a member of PCB), he has been in the squad for no reason whatsoever in Onedayers against Kiwis in Dubai(didnt play a single game though), then on Newzealand tour (where we lost the 1st test because of his dropped catches) and then on Australian tour as well. I think everyone in the world knows about his weakness outside the offstump but one way or the other he is part of the team.
Just have a look at the test squad and clearly we can see that its not a balanced squad, 5 openers and 2 middle order batsmen (Shoaib and Umer) in the squad of 17 ?!?!?!? ….. ask any unbiased person and he will tell you Fawad is a much better choice then Imran Farhat. So if we are playing with 2 proper players in the middle order (although I have question mark on Shoaib Malik’s technique) then forsure we needed Younis and Yousuf in the squad to stand any chance against Aussies and England.
June 28th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
I’ve read quite a few statements here. I am a staunch supporter of Younis Khan from the day he started playing for Pakistan. I’ve noticed people switch from non-supporters to supporters and then back to non-supporters.
Now let me start by just putting a simple fact across. Since 2003, if there is any 1 down batsman that has been the most consistent performer in the team, batting wise, physical fitness and fielding, it is Younis Khan.
For some reason YK is not lied by everyone because he doesn’t have the style, doesn’t have the power and does not rely mainly on boundaries. All three elements that we try to find in a batsman and like his game for some flamboyance.
He has respectable averages against all the top teams in all conditions. From the defying fifties against Australia he scored during the disastrous Test matches in Sharjah to the 300 odd on a belter. Agreed that the 300 was scored on a flat pitch, but you can’t ignore the fact that he scored a 300. Please tell me a single 300 off late that has not been scored on a flat pitch? And scoring 300 runs is not easy. Anyone who tries to put his 300 out on the side because it was scored on a belter is clearly being ignorant.
An average of almost 44 against SAF, 45.5 against England, 61 against NZ and 51 odd against SL. Not to mention 88 against India (thanks to the flat pitches of india and our batsmen’s love for indian bowling).
Plus, one factor that everyone seems to ignore about YK and his batting is that he is a fighter. He accumulates runs rather than relying on boundaries and restricting the run flow. We have enough flamboyant players in out team. We need a solid 1 down batsman, and there is no such batsman as of now to take his spot.
Now YK is no saint either. He has his issues where has acted childishly a few times. He might have shortcomings like acting like a baby at times, recent slump in form (which was partly also due to politics and team pressure). But i support him for his stand against PCB. I support the fact that the captain should have the right amount of power and the bloody chairman should not be involved in selection. Chairman’s job is strictly administrative and operational.
YK has had players revolt against him for a lot of reasons. The whole list of 9 players taking Shoaib Malik or YoYo’s side was plain stupid and shows how far our players go ahead in taking sides instead of focusing on the team’s need.
Plus, in YK’s case, instead of supporting him and squashing all these things, Inti and the managers took no action. let everything slip and then came out and complained to the PCB chairman. What’s the job of a team manager? to watch players revolt against the captain?
In the end, there is no need for YK to apologize to PCB. The guy is a pathan, it’s all about self pride and why should he apologize to crooks like Butt. Now everyone is backing YK’s case. Wasim Akram to Miandad to Zaheer Abbass to even Sarfraz Nawaz because we DO need him on the England trip.
June 28th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
@ Roamer
If you read my post carefully I am only highlighting the problem not supporting it, but the truth is always bitter and hard to swallow.
Nobody fired Younis Khan, for your information he quit like always and went on a fishing trip. The ban came afterwards.
Fawad has played plenty of Odi innings, the few test innings he has played except for that century on debut he couldn’t average more than more than 16.
You mentioned about Farhat these are his scores since he made his comeback , 22, 1 , 32 , 35, 117,61, 9,12,53,22,38,14
Now tell me how does these scores are any worse from that of Fawad especially when they were made against New Zealand and Australia and not in SriLanka.
I am not saying that Farhat is a good player but only highlighting double standards in judging the players. Lateef and Basit are complaining about Faisal Iqbal compare his scores too and then you will probably understand my point.
When Yk took over captaincy his supporters started saying that don’t expect miracles but the same people were highly critical of Malik and Yousaf when they lost a series. I am only highlighting these double standards and this is the main problem we have, you can bury your head in sand and pretend that the problem doesn’t exist but in reality nothing will change unless we become fair and adopt a nationalistic approach.
June 28th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
@Wasim –
Buddy seriously. I don’t understand why people target Fawad Alam so much.
Let me break this down in simple words. It’s not just for Fawad, its for all the young players who come into the team. You can not put a player in a team and not use him wisely and then expect him to score or play well.
Also a lot of times it’s not about what and how much you score, its also about HOW you score and in what condition you score.
Let me break down Fawad Alam here a little bit. Please correct me if i’m wrong.
H’e splayed 3 test matches, and it’s been at 1 down or opening position. You can’t expect a middle order batsman and a player who has never played at such position to perform consistently and right away. If our team really wanted him to perform, he should have been given an extended run of a minimum 5 test matches in a row to prove himself. And this btw goes for all the young players who are brought into the team. They should be put in a position where they have the chance to prove themselves and given a decent run.
In Odi’s and 20/20′s the guy has no fixed position. Sometimes he is sent out early, then he’s coming out towards the end of the innings. He is never utilized as a bowler when he is an allrounder who can definitely improve. He definitely shows the fire and desire to perform like Umar Akmal. And that’s why i would prefer him over players like Farhat.
An average of over 40 from 17 matches is not a bad one, considering he usually bats way down the order. He’s played 21 20/20′s in his career, out of which he hasn’t batted in 7 games, not out with low scores 5 times, and mostly sent way down the order just above Aamer.
He is not a basher, he needs to bat up the order. He is a run accumulator like YK , Jayawardene etc. 20/20 game has changed, it’s not what everyone thought it would be about. I seriously think he has a lot of potential that is going to waste because our team has not been able to utilize him properly. He needs to be given a clear role in the team with a fixed position. (changeable 1 to 2 up or down) The biggest plus is that the he is a good fielder and has the fighting spirit.
June 28th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
@Wasim –
The worst about Imran Farhat is that he gets the start and then gets out on the stupidest shots. The same shots that he’s been playing ever since he became an international player. He hasn’t grown as a player. He’s an opener, he’s supposed to capitalize on those starts.
I do support your comments about Faisal Iqbal though. I think he’s another wasted talent though. Another story of a player who was never utilized properly and is now past his prime. I’m sure we have better replacements for people like Faisal, Imran and Misbah.
June 28th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Another major issue with us as a nation is that we are a very impatient bunch.
If things don’t change in one series, we demand immediate changes. I’m sure that the England tour will not be a very good tour for us. But it will bring a lot of positives out in the team. But when the team gets back , everyone will be asking for Afridi’s head and some more scapegoats. The regular cycle will continue, parliament hearings, corrupt politicians getting their beaks wet, some players getting sacked, managers accusing players, a new captain and things will move on.
We need a consistent run with a captain and coach. Plus, atleast 8-9 fixed players in the team to form the core plus another 5-6 players to form the complete squad, and allow them to develop over a period of 1-2 years. That’s when we will see the team perform as a unit over a period of time.
June 28th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
Rafi
You have side stepped the main issue, nobody questions the past performances of Younis Khan or his integrity as a player, but he has his weaknesses and is not completely innocent in this whole political tussle between the players.
Afridi mentioned about his current form and discipline issues and I think he was quite right.
What has been Younis Khan’s performance in last two years as a batsman?
The system works at it’s best when there are checks and balances and not when there is a one man show.
Still I believe YK had a fair amount of control over selection, heck he got one chairman to replaced, one chief selector resigned because of him one team manager got replaced and you still think he was powerless.
He had no form and was only playing in the team as a leader but failed to keep his relations calm with the players and the team management, only because of his knee jerk reactions and statements in the media about players after one bad performance, he offended everybody. He has some serious temprament issues. Leadership is all about man management in which YK seriously lacked.
I think he should not have resigned from captaincy, and instead of going on a fishing trip he should have played in domestic cricket to improve his form.
June 28th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
@Wasim –
As much as i wouldn’t like to. I would have to agree on most of what you’ve said here. The biggest problem here has been his “Man Management” skills. That i think Afridi has perfectly in his bag. The right amount of love, temperament and political skills that make for a successful captain. He has his own downfalls too as a player though.
ANwyays. but i have to disagree on his batting. he had a bad 2009, but before that he was consistent. After the 300 his batting went downhill, but there are many factors behind it that you can’t deny.
However his ODI perf was even worse.
June 28th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Rafi
Which number does Fawad Usually bat on in domestic cricket?
I think we sometimes do not have faith in our captains and the coaches and are too impatient as you mentioned. I agree with you on giving an extended run to youngsters and Fawad got his fair chances, he doesn’t have a big range of strokes his footwork is all over the place, he has good temprament but that alone will not make him survive in international cricket.
Averages are deceptive on one hand you are pointing out that he bats too low but you failed to note that his average is inflated because of a lot of not outs in Odi’s, when was the last time he won us a match in any format?
I do agree with you on Farhat, I only gave his example to compare his scrores with some other players who are thought to have been victimized by people like Latif. We have to use the set of standards to judge all players.
June 28th, 2010 at 4:40 pm
@Wasim –
There are two sides to every coin. Agreed that his N.O have given his average a boost. Agreed that he doesn’t have the kind of footwork required.
But could you tell me which other current batsman in our team has the right footwork?. Malik? Afridi? Farhat? That’s another debate as to why proper batsmen are not coming through (except for Umar)
Please define a “fair chance” ? My biggest point in previous posts was the he is not being “Utilized” properly. He has played 20 20/20′s. mostly at position 7 or 8 when he should be coming in 2 down or 3 down maximum. You can’t expect a number 7-8 to come in and win you matches. You can’t pull a Mike Hussey most of the times lol
So when Latif says that he’s not being given a fair run, i have to agree with him. Latif is not always incorrect in his statements.
June 28th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Rafi
I have been saying it all along YK should not have resigned and should have improved his form rather than picking up battles.
Afridi is doing a fine job it seems that he is not getting pressured by captaincy his bowling has taken a dip but his batting has improved a lot the team is also playing as a unit under him, nobody expects him to do wonders everybody knows that we have a serious dearth of talent in batting as long as they don’t throw away matches Afridi will be fine. Believe it or not the fines and bans did had their effect you can see the some players are playing more responsibly.
June 28th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
Rafi
Did you noticed that he failed against MCC and failed against kent today.
He can’t bat higher he can’t bat lower in limited overs format which makes only one point that he is a misfit his game doesn’t suit the shorter format and in the longer format he doesn’t have the range of strokes or the technique. Farhat and Malik do have a wide range of strokes but they do struggle when the ball is moving.
But this wasn’t my point, my point was that why some players who have performed better than Fawad are treated as villains and why Fawad is being treated as a victim. Why we don’t judge players with the same standards.
June 28th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
@Roamer –
Yes, absolutely. I think what you may be referring to is nepotism and I think that it is evidently clear that it exists. You cited the example of Farhat, but one that has been going on for longer was that of Faisal Iqbal, nephew of Javed Miandad. Now that Miandad is out of the picture, it seems Faisal is too.
I have question marks in regards to Malik’s technique also, particularly against pace. I think he is decent when playing positive against spin. In Tests you need centuries in your team and we simply do not have them. Afridi has probably already made his for the year
, but he shouldn’t be relied upon as a main batsman anyway. Butt only seems to get hundreds against India….and that’s about it. We need century makers.
Time for Umar Akmal to step up I think?
June 28th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Stani
By playing an out of form experienced player would not have done us any good we would have wasted one batting slot I think we all experienced it in Australia when Yk was flown to Australia and did nothing, there is no evidience that this time he could have performed better.
The players selected are the best in the country but they are not world class so we will have to get used to see our team get spanked every now and then, this happens to every team once in a while and we are no exception, I think if one or two youngsters matured alongwith Umar Akmal we will be back on winning track next year, until then everybody should be patient with the players and the captain.
June 28th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
@Rafi –
I think Fawad should just concentrate on Test cricket because the only way I can see him realistically getting in to the other sides is for his fielding and you cannot pick players just for fielding. He is a slight figure and cannot obviously power the ball which is becoming so vital in the shorter form. His bowling will also not be required in the shorter form as the team will probably be filled with more attacking bowlers. It can be utilised in Tests though, and it is in Tests that I think he will do well with the bat also by taking his time and accumulating his runs. I disagree that he should come high enough in the order to face the new ball. I don’t think he is technically correct enough to survive the new ball.
He should make his intention to concentrate on Test cricket and make it obvious to the selectors that he is doing so. I would say that’s his best chance at making it.
Your point on impatience is exactly why I was so upset at Younis when he resigned around the time of the Dusti saga. He had the ball in his court, he could have taken Dusti (and his fake degree!) to the cleaners and we would have continuity in captaincy with a strong leader. I firmly believe he still would have been at the helm now. The guy just gets upset, doesn’t look at the bigger picture and walks away.
June 28th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
@Wasim –
Yes, let’s not expect too much from this tour….in the Tests at least. I do expect us to be competitive in the ODIs and more than competitive in the twenty20s.
I think if we were going to go the patience with the youngsters route, we should have brought a couple or so more youngsters over. The team will look mostly the same as before whereas we could have blooded a couple more youngsters.
June 28th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
@ Stani
Except for Naved Yasin and Mohammad Irfan nobody talented and deserving is missing.
Umar Amin, Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq should grab this opportunity. Amin has been disappointing so far, he has been lucky that Afridi is still giving him chances,I wouldn’t be surprised if the team management played Farhat in the test matches as so far none of the youngsters have shown any performance. Azhar Ali is yet to get a chance in the side matches hopefully he can perform.
June 29th, 2010 at 10:06 am
@Wasim, well you have been quite vocal in your support for Imran Farhat, atleast Fawad has taken all the catches that came his way and havent cost matches to us like Imran Farhat and Kamran Akmal consistently do. If you deduct the amount of runs the opponent batsmen have scored after their catches were dropped by these two, from the scores that these two made then the net runs will for sure be in Negative …. so its better to have players who if they can contribute positively to the outcome of the match. Another point arises over here is do we need players like Imran Farhat, instead I would suggest to play Kamran Akmal as a specialist opener (for sure a better batsman then Imran Farhat) and select a proper keeper instead specially in the Tests and hope no catch goes in the direction of Salman Butt
…. remember catches win matches and if we held onto any of the catch in Sydney we could have easily won.
Oh … You want me to give you an eg. of a match where Fawad won us a game, dude we are no more 80′s and early 90s team where our bowlers could win us a game individually and usually a bowler can individually win a game for the team, not batsmen …. anyway if you want to know a game won by someone who played only 3 tests, before asking me this question appreciate if you can let me know a game which your beloved Imran Farhat has won for Pakistan after playing 33 tests?…. we have lost because of him quite a few times because of his fielding (forget the batting as most of the times he has been a failure)
As for the scores that Imran Farhat made, did you watch any of the innings in it … none of them were solid and convincing ….. that century in Newzealand was on a flat track (remember Younis scored authoritative 300 in the last test that he played on the flat track) and he was lucky many times, as there were plenty of edges, plays and misses and unimaginative shots, so if this is something that we should persist with then I dont know what to say
In the last 3 onedayers, Fawad has scored 33 (coming at 60/4), 21 (coming at 39/4)and 60+ (coming at 70/4) …. so if you still think he is a failure then I guess there is no point in talking to you anymore
Also if the team selection from PCB is perfect, a question to ask is do we have any middle order batsmen in the domestic cricket scoring runs, I am sure there must be some …. because they have selected openers only …. what happened to the Under-19 team captain … he was rated quite highly too.
I also read a comment from someone when he questioned the having Yusuf and Younis, I personally still feel we need both of them in the tests (specially) and 50overs format and they both are much better then Shoaib Malik or Faisal Iqbal.
The only thing that I agree with you Wasim is about Faisal Iqbal
June 29th, 2010 at 11:07 am
@Roamer – How on earth a man indisciplined as Afridi ” The BAll eater in front of whole world and media showed it live” can teach lessons to some one who made pakistan Champion of T20?. Ball EATINg simply disgraced Pakistan and made a joke of our nation and he was awarded captaincy as he apologised.! Look at the form Afridi showed in T20 2009 before the last 3 matches, it was Younis who used him to his best later on. It was Younis who had the skill to defend scores and win matches for country as he did in T20 2009 and PAK – INDIA match. Afridi struggled in this T20 both with bat and ball. He always risks Saeed Ajmal for last overs and spares himself for easy ones. The way Afridi bats, and the team he has selected, it will be a replica of new version Aussuies are testing of 2 innings T20 and complete match in a day!!!Just imagine a class of trouble making boys, the best to handle them should be the leader of them all. That’s why Afridi is made captain. But, the leader of trouble makers knows, he is at risk to lose his job once a GENTLEMAN comes in! Why not keep him out!There is no place for GENTLEMAN. The only sin Younis did was he asked PCB to hold his open trial in front of media, inform him of charges and prove them if genuine. Younis will never do MUK MUKA as all others have done.
June 29th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
@ Wasim:
Would you also care to dig out the statistics of all the other batsmen that played around him?
I am sure they would be ever worse. And i agree with you that he might have been ‘andhon mein kaana raja’ but a half blind is better than a full blind…isn’t it?
I am not defending younis because i think he is a great batsman but do we have a replacement yet?
Even if you think that we should give youngsters a chance so that they can prove themselves and ultimately fill the gap but the question arises, doesn’t it make more sense to get rid of malik from the TEST lineup and try a youngster.
I am sure you are aware of the kind of wickets Malik has scored all his life, let alone 2009.
June 29th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
@Riaz: ?!?!?! when did I say Afridi is a better captain or player then Younis Khan?!?!
June 29th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
@Riaz –
You make a very good point in regards to Afridi. I intend to bring this up in my next post which I am in the middle of writing and will hopefully post today if I get a spare moment.
June 29th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
@Omair Mubashar –
I agree with you about Malik, I think his time is up. They did drop him for the ODI in the Asia cup after he failed. Maybe that is a sign of things to come.
June 29th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
@Wasim
Couldn’t agree more that Fawad has flaws in his technique but again he scored 168 against a new ball that was moving yards. His average is 41.66 with one hundred and no not outs.
Now this average isn’t inflated. Is it?
June 29th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Remember guys, if you want to get a piece published as a main article and get people’s views on it, then feel free to use the Fan’s Voice form. You can make it as long or as short as you like!!!
June 29th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Roamer
Either you lack in comprehension or you had no other valid point left so you are just trying to put words in my mouth, I never supported Imran Farhat the only reason I quoted his figures from 2009 because he is unanimously the most hated batsman in Pakistan team but his performance has been better than Fawad and Faisal, my point was why no criticism is hurled on these two players with the same intensity as it is hurled on some other players? Is it because of their domicile?
Except for that 168 his second highest score is 25 and then a bunch of 16′s so out of 6 innings he excelled in one and then failed in five, the same story is in Odis out of 17 Odis he has two 50′s rest are all failures 10′s 20′s and a couple of 30′s.He can’t play any big strokes he can’t play short pitched stuff, his footwork is all over the place but yet you see greatness in him, people like you have different lenses on to judge different players and that is the main problem with our cricket and this was exactly my point.
@Omair
Have you cared to look on the detailed stats of other players? Because I have and I have posted them many times, so why don’t you go take a look at YK’s ODI and test performance in 2009 and 2010 and then compare it with other players also do not forget to take a look at his domestic performances.
Fawad’s average of 168 is based on just one good score and five failures.
June 29th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
YK played 24 ODis in 2009 and 2010 scored just two 50′s in 2009 his average is 23 and in 2010 his average dropped to 13.4. The last two years of domestic and international performances are clearly indicative of his form, the current form is based on most recent batting figures and not overall career average, is this too hard to understand?
His test record except that 300 is equally pathetic.
Man I have never seen people so blind that they can not understand and see simple hardcore facts just because of their personal biases. What a shame.
June 29th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
@Wasim: So if I understand correctly, you are bringing regionalism in the discussion …. I guess you missed the point that I agreed with you on Faisal Iqbal (read Karachi player – if you think I am supporting karachi based players) and you had no basis to Imran Farhat
There are alot of guys who talk about Asim Kamal (read Karachi player) to be recalled in the squad but I dont agree with this too, although I dont agree with the way he was earlier dropped from the team. But on the other side I am surprised at the way Sami has been dropped from the team, I think he performed quite well in the Australian test series (although his selection for that series was baffling) but definitely he is better then wahab riaz. But I definitely support Umer Amin’s (read player from Lahore) inclusion and he should be persisted in the team as he has been performing quite well in teh domestic cricket for the last couple of years … I do feel he should have been in the team last year when he was scoring runs heavily in the domestic circuit.
So please try to be honest, instead of always thinking about regional bias …. btw from the figures that you have pointed out, if Fawad continues to score at the same ratio (1 century every 3 tests) then he will score 11 centuries by the time he will play 33 tests, thats 8 more then Imran Farhat
…. so do you still think Fawad deserves more flack then Imran Farhat ?!?!?!
June 29th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
@Wasim –
Wasim there is no personal bias here. What you mention here, all the facts, are correct and mostly we’ll agree with you. But you seem to be hard bent on denying the fact that batsmen can go through a rough patch. One bad year (considering all the crap happening around the team) for a batsman and he should be out permanently?
I will agree any day that Younis KHan is not a good ODI batsman. Without any doubt. But to deny him a test spot is pathetic by far. Domestically speaking, in the ongoing game for Surrey he has hit 45 (which shows that he has some form) and in the previous 3 day game he hit 77.
I’m not trying to prove you wrong here, (don’t know about others)but you seem to be in denial too i guess.
Comin to Fawad Alam. I’ll agree he doesn’t have much footwork, but then please tell me which other player in recent times have we had who is not prone to the moving ball or fast bouncy wickets. Except for Umar Akmal, there is no single player in the current team naturally capable of handling all kinds of bowling attack.
Fawad has only played 3 tests. So to judge him on those 6 innings is a little harsh, considering the fact that he OPENED the innings when he is NOT a natural opener and probably never has opened even in domestic.
Regarding his ODI’s. Man, could you please check where he’s been playin in both ODI’s and 20/20′s? Way down the order. He should be playning with Umar Akmal in the middle, probably at position 5. Like you said, he’s not a power hitter or a big stroke player.
Anyways, Fawad in my opinion is a decent player who can “DEVELOP” into a much better player with time if given the right amount of opprotunities. Not the kind that he’s been involved in right now. He plays one game, where he bats way down the order and never bowls, and then sits out the the next game. You can’t expect the players to develop if they are given opportunities like these.
On the topic of domestic performances. Dude, please don’t talk about our domestic performances. Our domestic circuit counts for nothing! We all know that. I’m not even going to type anything about it.
In the end there is no personal bias buddy. You have valid points that we can’t deny. I hope i make sense. I could be wrong too, but then again its my personal opinion.
June 29th, 2010 at 4:35 pm
@Roamer –
But dude, Wasim never took sides with FARHAT. He was just referring to him as a player who’s played recently and has been able to get decent starts.
June 29th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
@Wasim, Younis Khan hasnt played a single test in the last 11 months so what current test form are you talking about ?!?! … I guess you will be asking for trials before each series to select a squad … what we all are saying is that he should have been selected in the test team, not onedayers or T20 because we need experience in the team specially when you are playing against aussies or england in england and if you think 2 specialist middle order batsmen are enough for the 6 tests then I guess there is no point in talking to someone who doesnt understand cricket …. and dont forget his medium pace bowling could be really beneficial to the team in the seaming conditions (remember his performance in the last series that he played in Srilanka).
June 29th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Roamer
So You want to say that his Odi form is pathetic and his test form is a big unkown since he hasn’t played any in last 11 months so just on that basis he should be in the team. I haven’t heard a more absurd argument than this ever.
Dude I would love to see a fit and in form Younis anyday in our team, but if he is not in form he has to prove his form domestically like any other player thats my only point, same standards should apply on every player.
June 29th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
@wasim, there is no point in discussing with you any further as you seem to be in a state of denial and seems to be a big hypocrite ….. as you have different standards to select each and every player in the team
June 29th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
Rafi
I am not in denial, I know exactly what I am saying here. I am not in favor of any player or against any player personally, but I hate double standards in judging different players, Fawad may have a utility in test matches, but I don’t agree that he hasn’t been used properly in Odis or hasn’t got enough chances, if people like Razzaq who come in and bat after him can win us a match once in while than so can he but even in death overs he keeps on nudging and pushing. Anybody can score a 20 or a 30 if they don’t take any risk and attempt any big shot. If he can’t play big shots lower down the order and he doesn’t have a spot available up in the order then he is a misfit in the team.
My only point was why we don’t judge the performance of players using the same standards.The 20′s and 30′s of Yk and Fawad in 2009 and 2010 are no better or worse than some other players. So why these players are the victims and the rest are villains.
June 29th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
Roamer
Truth is always bitter and hard to swallow. You can call me a hypocrite or whatever, I think you had no argument left and didn’t had the courage or moral strength to accept that you were wrong.
June 30th, 2010 at 12:17 am
@Wasim –
I agree with each and every point that Rafi has made in the second last comment from his side…. not sure where to disagree really…its quite simple and clear…
June 30th, 2010 at 4:03 am
Omair
It’s true that any player can have a bad patch and especially if a senior player like Younis has a bad patch he should not be permanently dumped but on the same token the type of form he is in he should prove his form before he is selected otherwise we will waste a spot like we did in Australia.
Somebody above said that our domestic cricket has no standard, I completely agree and if somebody can’t even score on flat pitches against substandard domestic bowlers then he is clearly out of form, there is nothing to argue about that.
Younis is a dignified person as Mr Abbasi highlighted in his last post but dignity alone doesn’t win matches.
I have always said that his ban is a bit harsh especially when the likes of Malik has been pardoned but this is not true that he did not had any disciplinary issues or he did not played politics in the team.
He has picked up a fight with everybody, players, management, selectors and then walked away every time when things didn’t go his way.
A mentally more calmer person could have handled such situations with more maturity.
I know about his 77 and 45 and also know that in how many innings he failed in county cricket.
It’s not rocket science to understand that both Younis and Yousaf have been the main stay of our batting line up, but if we are to rebuild our team for the world cup then the new captain should not have any distractions in the team, both these players have big egos and are bound to create trouble especially when it is quite open now how these players were pulling each others leg. I think their inclusion would have harmed the team rather than the team actually benefitting from there presence. The same goes for Malik who somehow managed to get back in the team.
As regards the main subject of the post should Younis apologise, I think if not apologise then atleast he should own up some of his childish behavior and should admit that his form has been poor and he is working on it.
June 30th, 2010 at 8:50 am
@Wasim –
dude…you need to understand that its not just the form that gets you a place in the team. You need to consider the class of a player. Before Inzamam scored a match winning hundred against Bangladesh, everybody had written him off. He was having a poor run before that. How much did he score in the domestic games before getting picked? How much domestic cricket Wasim Akram played before getting picked? How much domestic cricket Waqar played before getting into the side? Do you really complaint about them?
Dig out the batting statistics of all the domestic players in the history of Pakistan and you will find that a lot of players have bigger averages than Inzamam and Miandad but they never played international cricket because they didn’t have that extra bit of talent to take the pressure of international games. Younis’s average is still 50. He has definitely not been in his best form but you have to look at your resources. Which Pakistani batsman has been in good form in test matches in the last 2 years? Misbah? Malik? Butt? Akmal….He is still better than all the batsmen in the current team. They might have scored in patches but most of them have struggled in test matches.
And last but not the least, you have to acknowledge the poor standard of our domestic cricket so you cannot totally rely on it. You have to use judgement to some extent.
June 30th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
[...] [...]
June 30th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
@Wasim –
Since Fawad Alam has scored 67 and hasn’t even got out…atleast one of the issues is settled…right Mr Wasim?
Obviously you will agree as you have shown so much support for in form players….so atleast Fawad should be ok now?
June 30th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Omair
Mohammad Aamer has also scored 44 and remained not out so I think he should open with Fawad:))
Wasim and waqar came into the team directly and never had to prove their form because they kept on performing at international level.
Is it too hard for you to understand that the guy is struggling at all levels of cricket since last two years even in our lowly domestic cricket.
Yes he will have to prove his form and fitness before he comes into the team.
June 30th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Hahahaha good one Omair
….. but dont worry Mr. Wasim will come back with another new objection against Fawad, lets see what will that be 
June 30th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
@Wasim –
thanks for finally giving up to pure common sense…. Mohammad Aamer has scored 44, this according to your stand should imply that he is in form and should be picked …. This is what you have been saying and not me… I have said exactly the opposite that selection is a mixture of form, class, fitness, talent etc. etc…Its not even that complicated its just common sense, which is obviously not so common
June 30th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
Omair
I think anybody having common sense would have understood my sarcastic remark that if Aamer can score 44 at twice the strike of Fawad and remain not out then one can easily understand the quality of opposition. But then again as you said common sense is not so common:))
June 30th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
dude there is not a single bowling attack against which tail enders haven’t scored runs…does that mean all of them were mediocre? Wasim, Waqar, Michael holding even shane warne and Mc Grath have been frustrated by tail enders so obviously this argument of yours doesn’t even hold….and it is quite absurd that now when Fawad has scored runs, you are questioning the bowling attack but you dont question the domestic infrastructure? You have spoken about applying the same standards to everybody so now atleast stick to your argument and be man enough to accept that yes he has shown some form and i was the one who wanted in form batsmen so Fawad should get a chance…
July 1st, 2010 at 6:16 am
Omair
Open your eyes and look carefully was there a bowler of Wasim, Waqar or McGrath’s standard playing in that match.
When did I say that our domestic cricket has any standard? But If a player fails against weak domestic bowling attacks then he is in no form. And I think this simple logic won’t get registered in your brain.
Now as regards Fawad, point me a single quote made by me where I said that he shouldn’t get more chances. You are too emotional and are assuming too many things.
Yes I have reservations about his performance and I have reservations about his technique the only reason I quoted him and Iqbal was because Latif and Basit are trying to portray them as victims, which they are not they are as pathetic as Farhat and a few others the stats are there for everyone to see.
I am sticking to my argument you are trying to sway from the main argument.
July 1st, 2010 at 8:29 am
@Wasim –
Is Fawad Alam in form or not?
July 1st, 2010 at 10:08 am
@Wasim, let me read your comments for you
on 29th of June you mentioned you hated double standards in judging players, so if this is the case then why do you have double standards in judging the form of Younis and Fawad?!?! because you want Younis to score runs in domestic cricket to prove his form (although I know for sure that once he will do that then you will say the attack was mediocre so you will look for another reason to oust him from the team) but for Fawad this rule doesnt apply for some strange reason 
…. do I hear double standards …. anyone 
on 28th of June, you said Fawad has got fair chances to prove him self, which a common man can assume that what you are trying to say is that he hasnt proven himself in the chances that he got and he shouldnt be tried any further…. so is it a case of mental amnesia that you forget what you earlier said ?!?!?!
Also on your last comment, bowlers of Wasim, Waqar and McGrath class will not be playing in any of the test, odi and T20 in this Australia/England series so everyone has got a chance to score runs …. even the tailenders
Also if our domestic cricket hasnt got any standard for the basis of selection then why do you agree with the selection of players like Wahab Riaz, Tanvir Ahmed , Yasir Hameed, Umer Amin and Azhar Ali ?!?!?! as they were selected based only on their domestic performances …. isnt this a case of double standards too
July 1st, 2010 at 11:23 am
@Roamer –
honestly roamer, i was literally going to write exactly the same thing but just gave up and ended up asking a one line question because ….
Your points are simple and clear…you’ve hit the nail right on the head…
July 1st, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Roamer
There are players with inherent flaws and there are players who do not have inherent flaws, the later, once they get going there is no stopping them.
Senior players like Younis and Misbah they are suffering from old age and poor reflexes but if they practice hard (and cut down on their fishing trips and spend more time and energy on the ground rather than playing politics and wasting energy on fighting stupid battles) then they might start seeing the ball early and can come back in form, whereas players like Fawad, Farhat and Faisal they can’t score beyond their limitations due to their inherent flaws.
Misbah scored big in domestic cricket came back and failed miserably because his reflexes were poor and he was missing straight balls in Australia and Newzealand where the bowlers were quite quick, Younis also did the same and there was a time when Inzamam also struggled for a full year, hence it is imperative for Younis to show that he is fully fit and in form. The time span for which he has been out of form is quite abnormal for a batsman of his experience and that does reveal a lot but to only those who look at him without any bias.
Like Misbah even if he scores in domestic cricket he still might struggle in International cricket but at least everybody will know that some of his form has been restored and his selection is justified. What is the point of playing a player who is visibily out of form and can’t see the ball in any form of cricket.
I never said Fawad should not be playing, but have always maintained that he has gotten fair amount of chances but hasn’t lived upto his hype there is a difference here which you failed to comprehend and deliberately tried to twist my statement to prove your point.
It is so unfortunate that we have such a huge dearth of batting talent and we have no choice but to include players like Hafeez, Faisal, Fawad, Farhat, and Yasir in the team on a revolving basis.
These players have given similar performances, so why Fawad is a hero without winning us a single match and Faisal a victim and the rest are villains. There is a double standard here which I pointed out and you guys fail to admit and keep on defending by twisting my statements.
No matter what is the standard of our domestic cricket that is the only nursery we have Wahab, Tanvir, Umer and Azhar have shown promise in domestic cricket and with Pakistan A.
With the exception of Umer Amin and Asad Shafiq I don’t see any realistic chance of any of the players in the above list to become a permanent fixture in Pakistan team, Azhar should have gotten a chance two years back when he was in super form.
Umer Amin is a good player once he gets over his nerves he will score runs, I think Afridi knows that and that is why he persisted with him despite his failures in the first two matches.
Tanvir and Wahab will never be a permanent fixture in Pakistan team they are bench warmers.Yasir hasn’t performed in domestic cricket or any other form lately and I don’t know why he has been selected.
Akhtar proved his form and fitness, Asif did the same when he made a come back, so why should Younis get an exemption, the fitness and form of older players has to be tested or else you might as well include a blind player in the team from Pakistan’s blind team.
July 1st, 2010 at 5:10 pm
@Wasim – Dude
Writing more lines and more paragraphs won’t do any good. It doesn’t make you sound clever so its of no use. The whole point is that why was younis dropped FROM TEST MATCHES in the first place? How do you judge form? Look at these averages….
Salman Butt: 27(2007), NP(2008), 30(2009), 51(2010)
Imran Farhat 22(2007), NP(2008), 41(2009), 32(2010)
Malik 23(2007), NP(2008), 36(2009), 38(2010)
Misbah 78 (2007), NP(2008), 27(2009), 6 (2010)
Yousuf 40(2007), NP(2008), 40(2009), 23(2010)
Kamran 37(2007), NP(2008), 44(2009), 12(2010)
Now YK.
Khan 51(2004), 60(2005), 66(2006), 54(2007), NP(2008), 63(2009)
Now when did he go out of form? Why was he dropped in the first place? You dont have to prove your form if you are dropped for disciplinary actions?
Now dont come back with useless details of the conditions and bowling attacks etc. etc. because most the other players have played alongside him.
Statistically yousuf is the best batsman in the history of Pakistan but Younis has been even better than him in the last 3 years.
and plz dont start bragging about that 300 he scored which inflated the average…because the question is that all the other players have played in the same conditions against same level of bowling, then why the hell are they on tour and not YK????
July 1st, 2010 at 5:13 pm
@Omair Mubashar –
and again dont start giving lecture that averages are deceiving because everybody here understands that they are….but the question remains how come they are not deceiving for all the other players?????
July 1st, 2010 at 8:38 pm
Omair
If you don’t want to admit that Younis has been out of form for almost 14 months because you are so afraid to lose the argument then this discussion is pointless.
It is a fact which he himself admitted on several occasions and all the major cricket juournalists including Osman Sami who has been his biggest supporter has highlighted in his several articles.
Now why shouldn’t I refer to the deceptiveness of averages?
He has failed in 20 out of 24 Odis since he made that triple century and since then he failed in almost every test and domestic outing , it’s been 14 months since he scored that triple century now if this is not going to convince you that he is out of form then you can happily live in your delusional world, I have nothing more to say about it.
July 1st, 2010 at 9:12 pm
@Cricketfiles –
is shoaib malik in form for the last 14 months?
July 1st, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Would you guys please stop arguing already? I’ve been getting notifications for ever. Every time i turn up on this page, its the same stuff. Acting like a dog trying to chase the tail. (No offense to anyone)
For closing arguments sake.
Simple facts. let me know if everyone agrees.
1. YK has been a complete failure in ODI’s past 18 months.
2. YK is a much better batsman in tests and is more likely to gain his form and score big runs in this format. SO he deserved to be in the team.
3. He has already scored decent runs for Surrey so far.
I don’t want to get to Fawad Alam’s case, cuz its a little trickier than YK’s in my opinion. However, some points from my side remain,
4. Fawad Alam does not have the right technique.
5. But FA is a more than capable batsman who can evolve with time and has the capacity to succeed.
6. To judge FA for tests would be harsh cuz he’s only played 3 tests and as as opened which does not do justice to the guy.
7. FA has not played in a proper role in both ODI’s and 20/20′s
July 1st, 2010 at 9:28 pm
P.S: YK has only played 3 tests in the past 14 months. His last test match was in July 2009.
on the australian trip when he should have been in the test squad, he was called for the odi’s. Everybody knows he’s not a great odi batsman.
I rest my case. No point arguing. Everybody has their own opinion. And i believe i have mine, which i’m sure is definitely not biased at the moment.
July 1st, 2010 at 9:41 pm
@Rafi –
completely agree with Rafi…and with that i am signing off as well…
July 2nd, 2010 at 7:10 pm
Rafi
I agree with you on Fawad, in the current series he will get better opportunities hopefully he will perform better, I never said that he shouldn’t be in the team he is as good or bad as some of the others in the team.
As regards Younis I know he has played only three tests, but if a player struggles to time and see the ball properly in Odis then for sure he will struggle in test matches too, not playing enough test matches doesn’t prove that he could have done any better, lets hope that he regains his form and makes a strong comeback.
July 5th, 2010 at 11:59 pm
I totally agree with Roamer on the sorry part, what should Younis apologize for? What has he done? Younis has always been a man of integrity, and men of integrity behave childishly because they only live for one thing, their honor. Why should he live in a system whereby he has no say in anything, will be made a dummy captain, however will take all the blame in the end (that was the problem he had in the beginning). More often than not in Pakistan, after a disaster, captains and players are changed, management does not. Management is as much to blame. Everyone might notice how all the coaches have been fired after their teams got kicked out of the football world cup. Where are the heads in our board? Younis Khan got some selection powers lately, yes that I agree. But how can you ask a guy to perform when everything around him is in such turmoil. He always has to watch out for his back, the country itself is divided in their opinions over him. It would have been next to impossible to have clarity of mind and thought under such circumstances. I agree with being against player power, but apply it across the board then. What’s more, what moral ground can this board stand on when administering and sort of authority? As for him standing up for a peon, who in this land of the “pure” would even think of losing their job over a peon? Do I hear integrity?
Imran Khan succeeded purely because he took EVERYTHING in his own hands. And by everything, I mean everything. He took HIS team to the world cup; each and every player knew that all they had to do was please Imran. They had his trust, his backing, and under such circumstances, you thrive. The board was too impotent to even say anything to him (I’ve heard the old guard saying that the board even publicly announced that this was Imrans team and not theirs). This is a big reason behind his success. This was not the case in Younis’s time. Even when he did get some semblance of a say in matters, you always knew that around the corner people were waiting to pull him down; be it on the race card or the performance card. He however has one thing in common with Imran, he is a fighter and a man of integrity. Imran stood in front of Ian Botham in England, Younis has done so here.
As for Fawad Alam; again, how can we expect him to perform; I agree with Roamer again. During the Twenty Twenty world cup we won, he never got a fair chance. I know you did not say Imran is better and were just using him as a comparison Wasim, but he is unfit to be even used as a comparison. Imran is not a solid player at all and his fielding is, well not even fielding. As for Rashid et al blatantly supporting boys from Karachi and the same standards not being applied to others, welcome to the world. Mankind by nature is a beast. There have to be rules and institutions controlling us, otherwise we will wreck havoc. If you let someone get away with a crime, I can assure you he will. There will be different levels of crimes committed, but people will misbehave nonetheless. Hence you see all the laws in western countries. Hence me being against the PCB. It’s a sham, and the sad part is, even if once in a while they do something half decent, we’ll not accept it because they are a joke. Yes, we’ve had players who achieved the unimaginable, but those players were phenomenal and not the norm. All the powerhouses have a proper system whereby talent is slowly and surely fed to become more than average or heck, even great. We need stability, some standardization in policy. This will not come from Younis, Imran, Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum. Yes, Pakistan will produce greats, they will lead us to glory, but the absence of a proper system (a.k.a the PCB, who by the way, I’d prefer to be named the Board of Control for Cricket in Pakistan as it always was) will always mean that there will be some controversy surrounding players, they’ll have their supporters and detractors and in the end we’ll lose another “could have been”. People supporting regions and all that is only natural, have a proper system whereby there is equal representation and an assurity that only the best will be picked, than if Rashid Latif will never pick Fawad Alam or support him if he isn’t all that good. Infact, the proplem is not even entirely with the board, after all, the board is elected by someone right. We need a proper system to be in place.
On a funnier not, in reply to Wasim saying he’s living a life not many can dream of, I think we all are. Why? Simply because we’re part of the select 20 odd percent of the worlds population that has access to the internet, an instrument that allows us to have debates like these and realize that we all have one thing in common, love for cricket and love for Pakistan.
July 6th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
@Faheem –
It’s an interesting point you make in regards to why Younis behaved the way he did. Could we also apply the same logic to Yousuf? I did suggest in the past that the reason they are behaving this way is because they believe they are innocent. The counter argument to what you say (“Younis has always been a man of integrity, and men of integrity behave childishly because they only live for one thing, their honour”), is that there is no honour in behaving ‘childishly’ anyway and they should recognise that.
I have always believed that with a strong board and management team, the problems we have seen amongst our players would not exist, or if they did, they would be nipped in the bud. I think it was Wasim who suggested on here in the past that the board was simply trying to take attention away from their own faults and complicity in coming down so harsh on the players.
I do agree that the power has shifted from Imran Khan’s era. The problem is, is Younis or anyone else for that matter, adept enough to handle such power were it to be entrusted upon them? I don’t think we will see a time such as that again in Pakistan cricket. I agree with your points on the administration system.